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Power usage on the hook

rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,254 ✭✭✭✭✭
in Rinker Express Cruisers Forum
Well, getting closer to using the boat as the bucket list of stuff is getting a little smaller and more under control.  Getting out and spending the night out is the next goal. I think for the first trial we will go to a spot we know if that is a state park with slips and power hood up which I don't expect any problems but gets me thinking of more remote mooring....I have a two batter system and do have a gen set.  I'm concerned how much I can use the fridge while not using the gen.  The battery usage is my concern.  So we start on battery one for the day to start. When we stop and drop anchor I switch to battery two.  While I am sitting there hanging out, kids are doing the tv, we are doing the radio, fridge is running keeping our food cool.  Assuming a decent house battery, will this last all day without charging? If I need to run the gen to top off the battery, how much will I be running the gen to keep the house battery up and going? If I am unable to run the gen (which right now I'm waiting to service before I try to use it any more) how much do you have to run the motor to keep it charged up? Will it effectively charge while just at idle?
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    Dream_InnDream_Inn Member, Moderator Posts: 7,563 mod
    Well, there is a lot in those questions that just depends.  But, I'd say for the first step to get the best bang for being on the battery, turn your fridge to the half way mark when not on generator or shore power (turn it up when it is on either of those).  Next, your usage of lights (especially if non-LED, hint - change to LED on one's you wil use) will drain a battery quickly.  If you use all sparingly, you could easily make a 24 hour period without charging.  Now, I'd say the safe bet is if you've set anchor in the morning or early afternoon, run the genny in the evening for a couple of hours.  If you are sticking around the next day, run it in the morning for an hour or two.  Radio can draw some power, so just monitor your 12V gauge.  TV, well, if is LED, an hour or so won't do too much.  Biggest thing is to not let your battery go down so far that you've done some damage.  If it is down to 12V, you've gone too far.  Running your motor will charge it, but you will need to do it for a half hour or so if you are at the point to need charging - need to watch the CO.

    Dream 'Inn III -- 2008 400 Express

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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,254 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So far, my tv is not of much use other than the dvd player which keeps the kid busy but sounds like I should be looking for a tv that uses less power.  I assume I can't get anything on the tv because of the digital switch some years back and a newer TV would be better....and anything I buy has to run on 110 and 12V, correct? So, where is the best place to shop for that as well as say a coffee maker or anything else that would have to run dual power? Our first trip out will have shore power just to get the feel of things but I soon want to venture away from the slip to enjoy the quiet!
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    TonyWalkerTonyWalker Member Posts: 744 ✭✭✭
    Rasbury,

    Once you get the feel of things, you will really enjoy the nights of anchoring out at your favorite quite places.  That is one of our pleasures with the Salt Shaker.  Our favorite place to anchor is right behind one of the small islands that is part of the Terra Ciea Bay waters.  From there we can see our neighborhood.  The round trip is about 4 miles.

    Tony
    Salt Shaker 342
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    Michael TMichael T Member Posts: 7,227 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Huge deals on 110/12volt TV/DVD at viva la deals.com  and road trucker.com  Have friends that bought at both places and got great TV/DVDs shipped fast and reliably. Good Luck. MT
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    TikiHut2TikiHut2 Member Posts: 1,431 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2014

    I wouldn't use my starting battery as a way to extend my frig use. That might end up being a bad plan. Here's a couple amp saving anchor out tips from the Tiki. I changed the amp hog light bulbs in all of the ceiling fixtures to these LEDs that came from china for pennies. They're a direct plug in and a nice whiter tint. They may not be the highest quality but I haven't had one fail yet and for .50c I'll just pop in another if it does.
    image

    Like Tony, we prefer to anchor out and have for years but really hate running a genset/engine for hours of charging if I can avoid it. If I've learned anything about scrimping on amps rather than just carrying more batteries/weight it'd be to use that little frig down in the cabin for a plate/silverware locker and save a virtual gigawatt of amps. I know it's old school but down in Fl a tiny refrigerator just can't cut it for volume running against the heat/humidity. That and the fact that you need more ice for beverages than you expect. Here's my FV270 solution.... a 60qt Gott cooler slides under our sink perfectly(most others won't). It's an otherwise unused enormous waste of space where I now also stow other heavier items amidship rather than in the stern weighing down the back of the boat while trying to plane off. It's easily accessed, is far more convenient for guests but still rides secure and it's shaded. With an ice block in the bottom, a food tray and barley pops it'll last a 3 day weekend......well not the barley pops. :D  Hope that helps, Mike 

    PS that 3rd pic is us sneaking in and using Tonys secret anchorage...shhh it's a great spot. You can see Tonys neighborhood over my hungry Admirals shoulder :-&

    image

    image

    2004 FV270, 300hp 5.7 350mag MPI Merc 305hrs, 2:20 Bravo3 OD w.22p props, 12v Lenco tabs, Kohler 5kw genset, A/C, etc.etc...
    Regular weekender, Trailer stored indoors, M/V TikiHut, Sarasota, Fl
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    TikiHut2TikiHut2 Member Posts: 1,431 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sushi for sure. lol She's certainly not a squeamish boat mate and it keeps the shrimp on their game.
    2004 FV270, 300hp 5.7 350mag MPI Merc 305hrs, 2:20 Bravo3 OD w.22p props, 12v Lenco tabs, Kohler 5kw genset, A/C, etc.etc...
    Regular weekender, Trailer stored indoors, M/V TikiHut, Sarasota, Fl
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    gslprogslpro Member Posts: 222 ✭✭✭
    Hey Rasbury.  I am not sure about your battery situation.  You have a house and starting battery, right?  You should leave your starting battery on.  Your house is separate, or should be.  We have two house batteries.  Nothing fancy.  Lead Acid.   standard size.  I run the cabin fridge, lights, stereo (which actually might be on the starting battery) and an additional low-draw freezer for my ice so it doesn't ever melt (Yay!).  I've never had it come close to killing the batteries.  Your battery gauge in the cabin should be showing your house battery level.  Just keep an eye on that.  I would maybe suggest turning on your systems and running them like you would if you are on the hook, at home.  In the morning, go out and see if your fridge and such is still on.  Sort of like camping in the backyard.  Might even be good to make a dry run of sleeping on the boat in your yard (I believe you are on a trailer?) with the kids and wife to get the kinks out of the "I didn't think of that"s.  Of course, a/c and heat won't be available because you won't be in the water, but it will get you used to the size and space, and show you your energy consumption.  And as Tiki mentioned, switch out those bulbs.  At $25-30 a piece to replace, and for the energy they draw, the halogen/xenon bulbs are nasty on the hook.  The LEDs are cheap and watt-sippers.  Buy spares while you are at it.  Good luck, and think about adding another house battery before going nuts on running the genny.  No CO issues on the hook with batteries.
    Gary and Diane
    290 FV Nauti Bonnie
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,254 ✭✭✭✭✭
    all great tips......where do I get the led's from? I'm going to try and work with the fridge depending on where I am going- this first trip is a place called Hontoon Island on the St. Johns River. It has shore power, showers and picnic areas for cooking (fat chance of that) and a place to get a bite not to far from there so it's a pretty safe place to try everything out but we will be on shore power only.  By the way, I assume when on shore power I turn the batteries off? Was wondering if the shore power still ran off the batteries but charged through the charger? Tiki- I'm looking at that pic with the cooler under the sink...in that area which I have my Igloo cooler from Rinker, did you cut out the back of that to be able to slide that in? I do have two batteries but one is pretty weak, one is brand new....would not think of staying out without 2nd good battery unless shore power. Tony is sure in a nice area...like Tiki. One day we may live on the west coast...really pretty over there for sure. Kind of getting the impression all the stuff on the boat is great for when your docked but on the hook, you better be pretty darn careful. I would not use my starter battery for anything other than charging and assume the genny charges off that as well. Let me know where to get those lights, I'm all over that!
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    TikiHut2TikiHut2 Member Posts: 1,431 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The section under the sink is a simple plastic insert/cover screwed in place. Remove the screws and you'll find a cavernous area of unused space, a dusty nest of dangling wires to tie up and a plastic tray mounted on the floor. I sliced a piece of tubing and slid it over the raw edge of the cabinet cut out for trim. I keep my shore power cord/jumpstart pack/tackle boxes/tools and oil n fluids along with the cooler in there now. The cooler sits right down behind the lip and comes up/out with a slight lift. I also boaught a $4 trash can for the galley above.

    The LEDs are an Ebay item. Do an Ebay search for the name from the picture or something close. Allow a few weeks for the slow boat from China.

    Hontoon island park is a favorite stop for the central florida cruisers club in Orlando. Check them out they're a nice family group of trailer boaters like yourselves.
    2004 FV270, 300hp 5.7 350mag MPI Merc 305hrs, 2:20 Bravo3 OD w.22p props, 12v Lenco tabs, Kohler 5kw genset, A/C, etc.etc...
    Regular weekender, Trailer stored indoors, M/V TikiHut, Sarasota, Fl
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    gslprogslpro Member Posts: 222 ✭✭✭
    Rasp, leave your batteries on at all times.  i never turn mine off, at any time during the season.  There's a whole thread on it, but there is never a need, and you can actually stop the charging process of your batteries when you do.  As far as your comment on having one weak battery.  You need to find out which, starting or house, it is.  Your starting battery does not do anything for house supply, unless you flip the switch, which you not want to do.  Your batteries should be separate systems.  House runs house, start does only start and maybe radio and bilge pump.  Having a "weak" battery is just asking for trouble.  Go to a Sam's, or Sears, or Walmart, or wherever, and get a new replacement battery.  if it is the house system, bite the bullet and for the extra hundred bucks, buy a second battery and get a decent house house battery bank.  house should be deep cycle, starting not.  
    Gary and Diane
    290 FV Nauti Bonnie
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,254 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I bought two new batteries but both were the same...they were higher rated than what was in there so hopefully that will work! Lessons learned...
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    gslprogslpro Member Posts: 222 ✭✭✭
    And also, never mix old and new on a house system, for the old battery will draw down the new one quicker.  Enjoy!
    Gary and Diane
    290 FV Nauti Bonnie
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,254 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ok, want to revive  this as first weekend going out on the hook to a place called silver glenn. A NATURAL SPRING, 72 DEGREE WATER so hope I don't need to run the a/c much but nice to know I can. My frige does not work but curious to know how you keep a frige going on the hook or is that a shore power thing for the most part? Also, I have the original TV- should I be able to run that while under power ok? For how long just on battery. I know I can run the motors every few hours for a bit and top off the batteries but sure as heck don't want to kill the batteries...I have the genset what would appear to be ok, I have new batteries. I updated a thread on the frige with some pictures as Yan asked me to pull a plug off the compressor and check the voltage but I could not find one, would like to use it if it's an easy fix. Did not see any breakers or fuses which I had hoped it would!
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    DanD2DanD2 Member Posts: 847 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2014

    Ras, just to give you an idea...

    I have 2 house batteries on my 342....here's an example of my typical on the hook experience.

    Of my two house batteries, one is a brand new  group 31, the other is a group 27 and I think it's on it's way out.

    Set hook & turn off motors around 5pm. I'll turn on the TV to watch the news for about a half hour. I'll then turn on the radio for a couple of hrs as we get supper going. During that time the cockpit fridge will be opened 3 or 4 times. It starts to get dark around 8pm so the admiral and I will usually put in a DVD in the cockpit TV and watch a movie if we're all by ourselves. I'll probably have one or two LED lights on for most of the night along with my LED anchor light. Around 11pm, I'll head down and turn on the salon TV and put it on timer for 1 hr...I usually fall asleep by then. During the night, the admiral gets up at least twice, turns on a light and goes to the head, turns that light on, flushes the toilet and then back to bed

    Here's what's constantly running on my boat....cockpit fridge, salon fridge, VHF Radio, LED clock with light, dashboard clock......when the admiral starts the genny around 6am for her coffee, my batteries are down to about 11.1 to 11.5 volts.

    Hope this gives you some insight.

    No longer a boat owner.....previous boat - 2005 Rinker Fiesta Vee 342
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    Dream_InnDream_Inn Member, Moderator Posts: 7,563 mod
     Dan, two things I hope you don't mind me commenting on.  First, you mention you have a new 31 and another 27.  I really hope those aren't your 'house' batteries, meaning they are not tied together (in parallel) to provide house.  If so, you are going to kill the new 31 battery by having an older 27 connected to it.  Your house batteries that are tied in parallel should be the same size and same age.  This will give you the longest life.

    Second, you say the voltage is 11.1 to 11.5.  That is extremely low and will shorten the life of your batteries. 50% duty is ~12.2V.  I try not to have my batteries go any lower than that and especially no lower than 12V.  Here is little more info on deep cycles http://www.batteriesnorthwest.com/batteryschool.cfm?TID=2 .

    Dream 'Inn III -- 2008 400 Express

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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,254 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have only two batteries on my 270...if I run the frige, typically how long can I run it before I need to charge up? I don't see any kind of meters for the batteries to even know where they are at, do most install some sort of meter? Can I check with a hand held? Also, running the TV, same question? I have two batteries but I did not get a deep cycle for the house battery, just bought "marine" batteries....I assume if I have my selector on battery Two, the worst that will happen is I kill that battery but still have my starter battery to crank back up and even run the genny if needed....correct?
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,254 ✭✭✭✭✭
    hmmm...yes, there is a meter but I don't recall it reading anything unless I'm on shore power or running the genny.....don't recall I looked when the ignition was turned on so maybe if I turn the key on I will see a reading on the meter?
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,254 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Will look that over and try the key on and see if I get a reading...will post if I can't figure it out...thanks!
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    Dream_InnDream_Inn Member, Moderator Posts: 7,563 mod
    I believe the 270 does not have a 12V meter on the panel, only 120VAC.  If you have a GPS connected, it may have a 12V readout.  I'm trying to think if any other electronics already have the DC readout that you could use.  Ras, if you are running the fridge, keeping it halfway (no more than 2/3) turned up will really help.  When on genny, then turn it up.

    Dream 'Inn III -- 2008 400 Express

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    DanD2DanD2 Member Posts: 847 ✭✭✭
    Dream_Inn said:
     Dan, two things I hope you don't mind me commenting on.  First, you mention you have a new 31 and another 27.  I really hope those aren't your 'house' batteries, meaning they are not tied together (in parallel) to provide house.  If so, you are going to kill the new 31 battery by having an older 27 connected to it.  Your house batteries that are tied in parallel should be the same size and same age.  This will give you the longest life.

    Second, you say the voltage is 11.1 to 11.5.  That is extremely low and will shorten the life of your batteries. 50% duty is ~12.2V.  I try not to have my batteries go any lower than that and especially no lower than 12V.  Here is little more info on deep cycles http://www.batteriesnorthwest.com/batteryschool.cfm?TID=2 .


    Not at all DI, it's what makes this such a great forum

    Even though I know I have battery issues, I just wanted to share my experience.

    The boat is new to me so I'm still learning all about it. I have 4 batteries and originally thought 1 for each motor, one for the genny and 1 for the house. My house bat was draining very quickly so I had the marina replace it (the 31 group). It was better but still not what I was expecting.....within 1hr of being on the hook, I'm down to 12.2v with just the constantly running stuff. Upon trouble shooting, tracing cables, disconnecting, seeing what works etc., I realized that I have 2 house batteries of different size and now think the 27 group battery is going bad. Boat is coming out of the water in 3 weeks but number one item for next year is to replace the 27 with a 31.

    No longer a boat owner.....previous boat - 2005 Rinker Fiesta Vee 342
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,254 ✭✭✭✭✭
    10 4 dream.... does not show power when on battery but does on genny and shore- I need something to show battery state when on battery...shame Rinker did not think of that...I hate tying things into a complex system already....
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    DanD2DanD2 Member Posts: 847 ✭✭✭
    I found a digital clock that shows in/out temperature and voltage on ebay and installed it in my aft cabin. I also turned on the voltage readout on my Lowrance HDS-5
    No longer a boat owner.....previous boat - 2005 Rinker Fiesta Vee 342
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    Dream_InnDream_Inn Member, Moderator Posts: 7,563 mod
    Dan hit it exactly right.  Something as simple as a clock that reads the voltage (as long as it's connected to house) or a GPS usually has voltage reading.

    Dan, I'm betting that right now you are better off disconnecting that 27 battery.  It is making things worse.  & just note, radio (usually has amplifiers) and fridges are two big battery hogs.

    Dream 'Inn III -- 2008 400 Express

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    MarkBMarkB Member Posts: 3,963 ✭✭✭✭✭
    70 Amp breaker??  Wow, that's a lot of juice.

    Boat Name: King Kong

    "Boat + Water = Fun"

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    TonyWalkerTonyWalker Member Posts: 744 ✭✭✭
    On the subject of monitoring the 12 v power buss, the cigar lighter is a good point of connection.  Obtain a cigar lighter plug that terminates in two bannana jacks.  Great connection point for your portable volt meter.

    Tony
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    BoatAwayBoatAway Member Posts: 179 ✭✭✭
    $5
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-LED-Auto-Car-Truck-Cigarette-Lighter-Volt-Voltage-Gauge-Meter-12V-24V-/161206948125?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2588aed11d&vxp=mtr

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    BoatAwayBoatAway Member Posts: 179 ✭✭✭
    this thread was enlightening. I bought a digital clock to be installed permanently (only had a dial guage). I'll be paying more attention!
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    Michael TMichael T Member Posts: 7,227 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Mine has the 70 amp fuse too. Even with 3 series 31 AGMs for house I'd have a dead house bank if I turned that amp up loud for a couple of hours. One of the biggest drains on the house are the big amps that power a lot of speakers. Rinker - and I love them for it - installed 6 very good cockpit speakers and two cabin speakers. That's 8 speakers running off a 70 amp amplifier. No can do for long. For me loud = shore power, generator or inverter. It's the price to pay for quality tunes and I'm fine with it. MT
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    l-skynyrdl-skynyrd Member Posts: 178 ✭✭✭

    I used to use the radio and amp while on the hook until I discovered it drained the bats. I now use a Sony portable with cd player that takes 6 d size bats and lasts for months. The sound is not as good but don't have to run the genny, and it does not scare the fish away.



    You have to love the water....

    Len & Robyn   342 FV  Freebird

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    l-skynyrdl-skynyrd Member Posts: 178 ✭✭✭

    I also changed out my anchor light with LED's. this a link of the one I bought on e-bay. It works great but I did some mods to it. I used the mount that was on the boat to get the proper height (above the radar). Just swapped the light fixtures.

    Saves a lot of juice when on the hook at night.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/FOLDABLE-ALL-ROUND-POLE-ANCHOR-LED-LIGHT-FOR-BOAT-NAVIGATION-FIVE-OCEANS/271129698585?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=1&asc=20131003132420&meid=122deb0cf4ed43e28ef923fde1b04d06&pid=100005&prg=20131003132420&rk=1&rkt=6&sd=231274316887&rt=nc

    You have to love the water....

    Len & Robyn   342 FV  Freebird

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