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Michael T

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Black_Diamond

The old 'break in' theory for engines is not really true for new engines. Many ship from the factory with Mobil-1. All the bearing surfaces, journals, cyl walls are machined/polished so well break in is not needed like the old days.

Full synthetic oils are the way to go if you can.

212rowboat

Maybe merc will get out of the oil business and identify some quality alternatives that won't break the bank, or warranty.. :-)

212rowboat

By the way.. I'm running 15w40 amsoil diesel/marine oil.. share similar compounds to straight marine oil.. it's got about ten hours on it so far, under some of the hardest running I've put this boat through.. checked it Sunday while putting boat up for week, and it looks brand new. ... I'm going to get a Blackstone report on it on another 20hours or so..

Robs_232

Funny we were talking about synthetic oil for drives less than a month ago and also got opinions about syn. engine oil. Scrap that idea. Drew, I think the Amsoil is what I am going to use, so please report back after testing it.

Michael T

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Robs_232

What weight RY? 10w40? I use Mobil 1 in all vehicles. Actually my new '14 Silverado has to use the full Synthetic 5W30 Mobil 1 ( with some funky new oil spec name ) or GM won't warranty engine probs.

212rowboat

Mobile one is a good oil... For cars.. not for boats.. zinc needs to be there in abundance to adhere to parts when it sits for a while... That is the key, and the ingredient to look for.. diesel oil has it.. oil for classic or show cars has it.. it's all about sticking to bare metal when it sits, especially around water...

212rowboat

About ratings: any cj6 ought to be fine.. it's a diesel rating, but.. zinc.. :-)

Robs_232

I thought that's why Amsoil was recommended a month ago. Thanks Drew

JoeStang

This is what I'm running this year. Will report back with my opinion as the season progresses.  Pretty sure its got elevated ZDDP levels for improved engine wear.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_15W-50.aspx#

Black_Diamond

This might be my next engine oil, same guys who make the special oil for outdrives and has high ZDDP too:

 

rinker312

I bought my boat in 08 and have been running AMSOIL marine engine oil and marine gear lube since I have owned it and so far all is going well. No issues

The Main Exchange

What oil do you guys recommend for an OceanX drive?

l-skynyrd

This is what I use from the advise of my machanic who builds race boats. Kendell race oil with titiamum and zinc. Never had a problem. He always said merc oil was not the best out there. I trust him and so far have had no problems. This oil is bit expansive but I think it is worth it.

Just my thoughts....

Len

Michael T

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212rowboat

The thing about warranty's is that the OEM has to prove the owner did something to void it; the burden is on them, not the consumer... most folks miss that.... if merc can up and stop making (in reality 'labeling') oil and then declare a consumers warranty void when they use something else (that meets same qualification their oil meets), then merc isn't a company I've got much respect for........

fram is an example of a company that pulled something similar... they produced a product with a bad anti-siphon valve in a filter intended for diesels... cummins, specifically.. Dodge went as far as to issue a TSB informing dealership shops to remove and replace the filter when they encounter them- and freakin' fram brought law suit against them for that, and freakin' won... Mopar had to resend the TSB- though Fram only quietly and later 'fixed' the problem....... it seems to me that fram invested more in their staff of lawyers than in product development, and protected themselves from 'bad publicity' instead of making it right... if merc actually voids a warranty after stopping to produce (label) and oil, then they are no better than fram, and I'm done with them.

212rowboat

just a note, for whatever it's worth: 

for you fellers running new engines w/ o2 sensors and catalytic converters- be careful with the ZDDP's.. if you pass any oil through the combustion process it will lodge in the cats and eat them alive in short order.

Michael T

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JoeStang

drewactual said:

just a note, for whatever it's worth: 

for you fellers running new engines w/ o2 sensors and catalytic converters- be careful with the ZDDP's.. if you pass any oil through the combustion process it will lodge in the cats and eat them alive in short order.

Thats a small concern of mine, but if you dont have blow-by or a bad PCV it shouldnt be an issue, right?

Its rated at 1200/1300ppm Phosphorus/Zinc, and the Merc FS was right around 800/800.

JoeStang

Here's an oil analysis of Merc FS 20w-40



And the same lab testing results for M1 15w-50
Looks to me like the M1 has a bit more Zinc, but the viscosity readings are well within the recommended levels (the Merc FS was not), and I wonder why the calcium was so much higher in the Merc?

212rowboat

I get 'ya, MT, I think maybe I could have better stated that merc should (or should have) done two things at once when discontinuing their FS line- which is/was indicate another that is suitable..

I dude I've worked with for 12 years has a wife who works in the auto industry warranty business for Mopar... those folks are like (medical) insurance in more ways than one.. their first option is to deny deny deny- but when a consumer stands up they 're-evaluate', and 'reconsider'... it is a process they have to follow and before a big claim is paid out the agent has to show that the process was followed.. it's BS in the highest order, but it is what it is.. I imagine warranty departments no matter the industry are similar in that regard.. and, I bet Merc (who likely outsources their work) is no different, and I further wager that they will be careful about denying warranty's based on oils in the future, in light of this maneuver..

but anyway.... there is this, too:

conventional oil today isn't the same as conventional oil even ten years ago.. I'd rather use conventional oil of today than use the highest end FS from 20 years ago- it is hands down better... then the blends come into play, and the blends are better today than the FS likely even ten years ago.. point being, the blends are likely just fine for your rig and any other..

on synthetic oils: "....Synthetic base stock lubricant oils, as described above, are man-made and tailored to have a controlled molecular structure with predictable properties. They are composed of organic and inorganic base stock oils combined with polymer packages to produce synthesised oil compounds (API/SAE Groups III, IV & V)...."... which is to say that many if not most FS oil is simply a higher refined organic oil with binding additives..

the problem I am going to suggest that is rampant in the industry is 'what constitutes FS oil?'... the industry is all over the place, all labeled FS but not all nearly so.. just like buying 'organic' in the grocery store food aisles- the designation for organic is very convoluted.. the separation between makers like Amsoil and Kendal and others by any of the major producers is obvious and large- Amsoil and Kendal, insofar as I can tell, are far and above the better products- but, honestly, how good does a product need to be?

oil is one thing... for a product to be in your crankcase and do it's job for a prescribed amount of time/use there are likely no less than 20 alternatives that will suffice, and in the window of time/use detailed on the bottle.. Amsoil and Kendal will outlast the filter.. Royal Purple makes decent stuff, and it will outlast the filter... but none of them should go longer than the filter is designed to handle, or, swap filters at 2/3 life of it's intended span, and keep the FS oil going for 2x the life of blends or conventional....

there are literally a dozen ways to go about ensuring the health of your engine... so... you can do like I did (and depending on the blackstone report on the Amsoil) go FS w/ a high end oil, or.. you can go with cheaper off the shelves of Wally World oil and filters, but swap more often... in the end (again, depending on that report), I am willing to wager the overall costs are the same or similar to keep your engines happy... which, in my mind, comes down to how often you wanna change oil.

you just gotta avoid additives that are harmful... zinc, when it comes into contact with platinum, palladium, and rhodium, makes a nice little corrosive similar to that of the chemical reaction between diesel fuel and anything galvanized... it will break down the catalytic converter in short order, and those rascals are expensive... most likely, a healthy engine isn't going to ingest much- but all do a little bit on start up and idling through the PCV when the vacuum signal is high and the rings haven't married the cylinder walls perfectly (new OR aging engine).. it's just something you gotta look out for... a bunch of folks I know in the engine world are building 'vent to atmosphere' catch cans in their PCV's to avoid this... but.. that is just one means to get into the combustion process.. another is valve guides.. if you lose a valve guide seal, which is more common than folks want to admit (folks who 'burn' oil, this is likely the culprit) you'll not only ultimately be replacing those seals (not a big deal or job), but you'll be replacing the cat too.. which is a big deal, due to expense..

212rowboat

JoeStang said:

drewactual said:

just a note, for whatever it's worth: 

for you fellers running new engines w/ o2 sensors and catalytic converters- be careful with the ZDDP's.. if you pass any oil through the combustion process it will lodge in the cats and eat them alive in short order.

Thats a small concern of mine, but if you dont have blow-by or a bad PCV it shouldnt be an issue, right?

Its rated at 1200/1300ppm Phosphorus/Zinc, and the Merc FS was right around 800/800.

I would be more concerned with valve guides than I would PCV's... the PCV is going to blow by for a brief second on start up until heat seals everything up, but only in conditions where there is oil in the top end already which is rare... the valve guides is what I would be concerned with..

i may lead the charge, here, but one item I wish like hades 'they' would have installed at the factory is a vacuum gauge.. you can spot a faulty valve guide in a heartbeat with a good vacuum gauge.. problem: a good vacuum gauge is analog, and from the helm to the engine is quite a distance to run a hose and expect good signal.

JoeStang

Agreed, and for someone with 500 hours on their engine a high zinc level is likely not ideal. However, their boat right now is probably 10 years old, so probably doesnt have cats.

I've got 60 hours on mine, and its only on its 2nd season. If a valve guide goes in the 1st 5 years (my warranty) I would wager that either oil would likely ruin the cats, as they both have a good amount of zinc additive.

212rowboat

I'm thinking you're right...

for what it's worth, valve guides have a 'wash basin' failure rate.. if you make it through the break-in period without a failure, chances are you'll make it until other items start to fail that would prompt you to do new valve guides anyway.. :-)

picturethis

Michael T said:

Kendal race oil is fantastic (and expensive) and  is what I used to use for the 383/390HP built engine in my Rinker 190. The engine is now 12 years old and the idiot who bought it from me (still keeps calling me to say it "runs rough" then I ask "are you running 91 in it?" Duhhhhhhhh) hasn't killed it yet. I agree with the info you guys are recommending  - thank you - my problem is that these VERY expensive engines are under Merc's warranty. IMO Merc is fantastic at honoring warranty work IF they agree with how you treated their product. Soooo I DO have to get prior agreement on the oil I will run in these babies - well, that is if I want Merc to assist if anything goes wrong. MT

little off subject,  My manual says to run 87 in my 7.4 MPi .  it doesnt seem right to me . any feedback

Michael T

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212rowboat

Octane is an expression of rand counts, and the compounds that make gasoline more inert, not more explosive.. making it more inert makes it more difficult to ignite, and a by product of that is it makes it more predictable as to when it will ignite..

Predetonation happens when ignition of air fuel mix happens before the engine is ready.. it can be a result of the violence of the compression stroke, or due to a hot spot such as a spark plugs tip (which is why you want to run cooler plugs in a performance engine).. predet is **** an engine.. the slang for it, pinging, sounds just like that.. it is a piston bouncing off its wrist pin, or, the bearing cap popping off the crank.. either displaces oil designed to float in there, and wears an engine.. which results in bad bad stuff either catastrophically or over time..

High rand counts, as in higher octane, makes the fuel less likely to predetonate, plain and simple.. since your engines are lower compression and the ignition timing isn't far advanced, you can get by with lower octane... But.. water destabilized that predictable nature, along with other contaminents- which is why ethanol sucks as it attracts and holds water.. ethanol is also **** every surface it comes into contact with unless that surface is stainless steel.. ethanol, bad.. low octane, bad.. it's a small insurance to buy recreactional fuel (ethanol free), and higher octane... You never know when your engine will run warmer for some reason- temperature, air quality, and timing of igntion (intended ignition or predet) are closely related.

Babyboomer

I've been running Merc blend for years and very happy

Glassguy54

We have a 2007 246, with 350 MAG MPI, B3. Its a trailer boat and I always put 91 octane premium in it. I also add Startron fuel additive as well, to prevent phase separation.

Strother85

I ran into this when I went to purchase the materials for the first oil change (at about 10 hours now and dont want to get caught at 20 without the materials).  The marina had a notice from a merc rep posted by the oil that pretty much stated that merc decided that the synthetic blend was good enough for the new emission happy engines and therefore did not see a need to continue to make the FS.  The notice said that the blend will be the replacement moving forward.  Seems a little sketchy to me....So I have 10 hours to decide what I am going to do.  Will certainly be following this thread closely...