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new genny problem, water impeller does not turn and pump...

rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,238 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited September 2014 in Generator Discussions
Well, my 270 has the 5 something Koler genny which I have only run a couple of times since purchased 5 months ago or so...changed the water impeller, plugs oil and filter and tested it but never used it. Planning on using this weekend and tested in my yard yesterday or about 2 hours and ran fine, shut it down. Just for giggles today, I fired it up which it did but no cooling-checked my hose as I thought I had a little kink in it and started it up and still no water. Checked the inlet filter and it was clean and full of water so it was at least getting this far. Pulled the inspection cover off and pulled the anode- no water in the tank at all came out. Pulled the water pump cover off thinking a impeller problem and it looks fine. I turned the engine over and it does not spin it nor the shaft it mounts on....what the heck happened? I'm going to look at the parts manual so I can see how that goes together but this does not sound good,....
Post edited by Dream_Inn on
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    Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Member Posts: 5,439 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There is a plastic coupler that drives the pump. Bet it broke. Easy fix. 

    Past owner of a 2003 342FV
    PC BYC, Holland, MI
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,238 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I got back out there after the monsoon had passed and pulled off the pump(two allan heads) and then a big ol plate behind that (two bolts) and indeed, a yellow coupler broke in half. What a crappy design. Working on getting a replacement. I would suggest to anyone replacing the impeller, replace this very inexpensive pretty likely to fail coupler while you are there....
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,238 ✭✭✭✭✭
    and it looks nothing like what the manual shows...
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    Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Member Posts: 5,439 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2014
    Glad it was as I thought. :)  This is it:

    http://www.partsfortechs.com/asapcart/359448-sleeve-rubber-kohler-p-978.html

    Me thinks I know the 5e a bit too well.  arrrgg

    Past owner of a 2003 342FV
    PC BYC, Holland, MI
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    Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Member Posts: 5,439 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It is on the 5e, I would double check with your being diesel though. 

    Past owner of a 2003 342FV
    PC BYC, Holland, MI
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    Dream_InnDream_Inn Member, Moderator Posts: 7,558 mod
    Ok, I find this very interesting.  So, this is directly behind the impeller?  on the shaft? I've changed many impellers, but never have seen this.  If it's on the 5E, I'm betting it is on my 7.3ECD as well.  SO, you take the 4 bolts holding the front plate of the impeller, then it's behind that?  Sorry for the questions, but I definitely want to change mine as well cause it seems like something that can certainly ruin a weekend!

    Dream 'Inn III -- 2008 400 Express

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    Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Member Posts: 5,439 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The coupling is behind the pump itself.  It would be on the input of the shaft. 

    Past owner of a 2003 342FV
    PC BYC, Holland, MI
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,238 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Black has it correct- if you have replaced your impeller before you have 4 bolts that hold the cover plate on and then the pump housing itself with a shaft coming through that and the impeller goes on that. To go further, there are two allen head screws that hold the pump housing onto a big round plate. There are two other bolts that hold that plate on and then your looking at the end of the actual generator and a shaft coming through that and there is a gear on that end. If you look at the back side of the pump housing , there is another gear at the end of that shaft and this plastic coupling joins the two. I can't imagine with the torque coming off the shaft on the genny that this part will hold up.......I'm not sure what the proper term for this type of "gear" is and I'm sure it is called something different.
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    Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Member Posts: 5,439 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It is just a 'flexible' coupling.  The splined hub on each shaft with the elastomeric sleeve to connect the two.  Cheap solution. The torque to drive the pump is not all that much, way less than the engine can make, that said vibration, heat beat these up, even in industrial applications if that makes you feel any better.  lol  I can fill you with stories of applications that blow $25k couplings too.  :) There are better solutions that are more fail-safe but instead of $15 you'll spend a few hundred dollars...but breaking that $15 piece is cheaper that breaking the shaft!

    Past owner of a 2003 342FV
    PC BYC, Holland, MI
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,238 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yep, I suppose better to burn the coupling than something else but would say again, replace it along with the impelled, it is 13 bucks!
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,238 ✭✭✭✭✭
    two in hand for 13 bucks a piece......now, on to something else!
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,238 ✭✭✭✭✭
    15 mins had it back together and running...sweet!
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,238 ✭✭✭✭✭
    it was the coupling....was broke in two, was a very easy fix thank goodness....and I would suggest anyone that changes the impeller just change that too...your right there and two screws, pull the pump housing off and slip a new one on and your good to go...I had put a new impeller on a couple of months ago and if aware of that crappy coupler, would have replaced it too.....
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    Dream_InnDream_Inn Member, Moderator Posts: 7,558 mod
    so does the impeller have to come off to get to it?

    Dream 'Inn III -- 2008 400 Express

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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,238 ✭✭✭✭✭
    yes, if you have not taken one off, it has to be the single easiest maintenance thing do- that said,all you have to do is pull the rest of the pump housing which is two more bolts. I pulled the big plate behind that off but you can change it from there or if it broke, might be able to fish it out through the hole or take the large plate off which to more bolts...easy
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,238 ✭✭✭✭✭
    wow, your going to need to flush all the missing parts out of the system....and change that coupler while your there!
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    Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Member Posts: 5,439 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You'll have to backflush for sure with that mess. Change the anode too. 

    Past owner of a 2003 342FV
    PC BYC, Holland, MI
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,238 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Rinker- there has to be some connection between the pump and the genny-pull the pump off and check...I don't see how that was cooling! And 10 4 on the anode....
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    Dream_InnDream_Inn Member, Moderator Posts: 7,558 mod
    RY, I think I have one of those impellers.  For some reason, when I bought the boat, it had one of those impellers on it.  Not sure what the previous owner was thinking he was going to use it on.

    Oh, and that is one used looking impeller!

    Dream 'Inn III -- 2008 400 Express

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    Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Member Posts: 5,439 ✭✭✭✭✭
    RY is your pump belt driven?

    Past owner of a 2003 342FV
    PC BYC, Holland, MI
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,238 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Rinker- who knows! I have the Kholer parts and service manual and the pump on mine is nothing like what they show.  If you pump is belt driven off a pulley then I would guess you do not have this coupling. On mine, it's actually driven by a shaft that comes out of the generator it self so the coupling is in between that shaft and the shaft in the pulley itself. If your belt driven, you should be good to go...
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,238 ✭✭✭✭✭
    10-4 to that!
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,238 ✭✭✭✭✭
    this was cooling for you motor, not your generator, correct?
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    Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Member Posts: 5,439 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm sure a new one worked better than that shredded one you had!  lol  Hard to believe it pumped any water at all.

    Past owner of a 2003 342FV
    PC BYC, Holland, MI
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,238 ✭✭✭✭✭
    that's what I said....did you change the anode?
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    TikiHut2TikiHut2 Member Posts: 1,431 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2014
    I've been jinxed with all this Kohler 5E broken raw water impeller coupling talk...... but man I knew right away what the issue was because of all the dialogue. I just went to flush my genset after a few days on the hook, it spurted once and quit pumping 3 seconds later I shut it down and I said to my self, REALLY!. Sure enough the impeller coupling has broken. I always say it's better to break down right at the house, so I guess I'm a lucky dawg.

    Here's the pics to add clarity for the next guy. My 5E is an '04 ver and the access was super easy. 15min job with simple access to all bolts/parts. Mike



     
    2004 FV270, 300hp 5.7 350mag MPI Merc 305hrs, 2:20 Bravo3 OD w.22p props, 12v Lenco tabs, Kohler 5kw genset, A/C, etc.etc...
    Regular weekender, Trailer stored indoors, M/V TikiHut, Sarasota, Fl
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    Dream_InnDream_Inn Member, Moderator Posts: 7,558 mod
    Thanks a bunch for that picture!  I will need to order one of those for the next time I change my impeller (just did it over the summer).

    Dream 'Inn III -- 2008 400 Express

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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,238 ✭✭✭✭✭
    sorry to Jinx ya! If I had know it was there, I would have changed it with my impeller as stated before...I sure will from now on and found the part local so that has to tell you something...probably one of the easiest repairs we will ever make...
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    Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Member Posts: 5,439 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This will be on my winter fix it list too. Probably smart to swap it with the impeller at the same time for the minimal cost and already being there. 

    Past owner of a 2003 342FV
    PC BYC, Holland, MI
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,238 ✭✭✭✭✭
    10-4 to that....lesson learned here for sure!
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