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hinge pin help

212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,591 ✭✭✭✭✭
alpha one gen two hinge pins won't budge.... are there any tips to getting these things to free up?  

I wrestled with bellows once before, and actually managed to replace gimble bellow and exhaust w/o removing the ring, but I need to replace trim senders and ALL the bellows this time- and I imagine it will be much easier with that dang ring off... so... how is it done if they are frozen solid?  

I used heat (but not a lot, for fear of cracking the aluminum) and I used an impact wrench (1500#) and they won't freakin budge... they've been soaked with liquid wrench and I intend on trying again tonight... but I've gotta be missing something... anyone have advice? 
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    Handymans342Handymans342 Member Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Al is a your best hope
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    craigswardmtbcraigswardmtb Member Posts: 1,015 ✭✭✭
    Yeah those buggers are really in there.  I soaked mine in liquid wrench and went at them the next day.  They budged with a big breaker bar but I thought they were going to strip the whole thing right out.  I have heard heat is the way to go on these.
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    212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,591 ✭✭✭✭✭
    thank you both... I had the torch in my hand and hit it for about 30seconds... those rings are pricey and it spooks me to break such a thing... but... it's gotta come off one way or another... 
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    frenchshipfrenchship Member Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭
    Those pin are installed with red loctite so heat as to be applied around the pin on the inside the ring with the bellows installed it is not easy to do with out burning anything. I used a pack of rags soaked with water to protect. If you used to much force to remove the pins without any heat good chance you will break the thread into the ring .
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    212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,591 ✭✭✭✭✭
    thank you, sir... I can focus the heat- I have the technology..  :D  good to know and will most likely make a huge difference!
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    reneechris14reneechris14 Member Posts: 3,134 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Try heat then cool (spray water)then heat again it has worked for me.red lock tite is tough.
    2005 Rinker FV342  Pawcatuck river,Ct
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    212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,591 ✭✭✭✭✭
    i love the devil out of red loctite- it's the fastener equiv to 5200... I didn't know it was there... 

    do you have any idea how many hours of my life I've wasted trying to get that thing off and then failing, and having to get in all grades of awkward position to swap the two main bellows?  let me tell you- zero fun... 

    tonight my hinge pin (x2) meets mr. "so dang hot you can barely see it" flame... :) 

    hitting it with heat yesterday wasn't so much as to break it free (not knowing about the red loctite) as it was to seep liquid wrench into the union... 

    i feel like I did when i drilled a hole in the hull- I'll do it, it'll just take a few beers to calm the nerves... <span>:smiley:</span>
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    frenchshipfrenchship Member Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭
    Don't forget to put some red loctite back  ;) and proper torque.
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    Dream_InnDream_Inn Member, Moderator Posts: 7,594 mod
    You could also try using a 1/2 inch hex key.  I've seen them work with good success (while heating of course).  I'd think though something that has 12 points (instead of 6 with hex) would be even more effective.  I know the tools made for the job aren't always that effective.  Hopefully the heat will work.  A good minute or so of it should do the trick.  Good luck!

    Dream 'Inn III -- 2008 400 Express

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    212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,591 ✭✭✭✭✭
    no budge- the entire hinge was too hot to touch.... I discovered my 1500# impact wasn't working as well as my 350#.... so... I'm going to pick up another 1500# and vow not to loan it out again- I'm pretty sure it was left out in the rain... I spent more time taking apart and cleaning the impact than working those bolts over, but that isn't to say I didn't spend enough time on them to realize they aren't coming out with anything I currently own... 

    i've now been challenged... it will break, I will break, or those bolts WILL come out. 
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    Handymans342Handymans342 Member Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    frenchshipfrenchship Member Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭
    Wow amazing those are really seize in....... Keep up posted hope you don't have to replace the ring.
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    212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,591 ✭✭✭✭✭
    i wrestled the bellows on at the beginning of last year and didn't remove the ring... it was a pain because of the extended swim platform, which means I basically have to crawl in and out from underneath it... grrr.. but- that's not that big a deal and wouldn't even be mentioned if I wasn't so vexed over those bolts...

    i gotta get it off... I must replace the trim sensors- they got goofy last year, at the end, and it was because (discovered when I started this project) the wire is skinned and exposed.  don't have a clue how.. my paws are far too big to reach up in there at the top of the yoke.. I may even have trouble with the ring off... 
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    212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,591 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'll be welding a hinge pin adapter into the hinge pin tonight, if I can... certainly by this weekend... I stripped that baby clean... Used a can of liquid wrench over a period of almost a week now, a breaker bar, a broken adapter lug, heat galore, and a 3/4 ig-ran impact wrench starting at 350# and working my way up to 800# before it stripped (and it stripped while applying heat to the hinge).... 

    I've never encountered a more stubborn bolt.  I'm at a crossroads right now... either I drill it out, or I weld the lug in there and try turning it again... I won't be able to drill it once it's welded, and I won't be able to weld to it partially drilled... 

    I hate these things... I'm using the word 'hate' and in it's true context.  Two bolts have stumped me solid. 

    The only other thing I could try is to drive a 25~26mm hex into the head and try to turn it again.  


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    frenchshipfrenchship Member Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭
    Sorry to hear that, I am baffle that those pins are seized up like that, has I mentioned before usually with heat and proper tool they should have come out, are you in fresh water or salt water ?
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    212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,591 ✭✭✭✭✭
    salt... I don't think they've ever been removed, and the rig is a 2005... 
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    frenchshipfrenchship Member Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭
    Has you probably know those pins are SS and with the ring being different material there is a good possibility that there was a chemical reaction that almost weld those together. If you
    already use 800# and heat they did not move. I really don't know how you are going to be able to get them out .
    after you give it another try with an hex 25~26 mm and heat you probably have to try to drill them out not easy with SS. 
    Good luck

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    craigswardmtbcraigswardmtb Member Posts: 1,015 ✭✭✭
    These are actually reverse threaded.  You are turning the wrench the wrong way.
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    craigswardmtbcraigswardmtb Member Posts: 1,015 ✭✭✭
    Sorry that was mean.  I'm joking of course.  Good luck.  Mine is a 2005 as well and fortunately I lucked out.  I wonder if they actually had been removed before and did not install red loc-tite on reinstallation.  Then the clean SS threads welded to the ring...
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    212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,591 ✭✭✭✭✭
    it's the port side.  I'm destined to tack it and power through this mess... I need new pins, obviously (or at least one)... 

    it is what it is- I won't be able to address it until Saturday... It crossed my mind this afternoon to drive a T70 into it, and see if JB Marine Weld will hold it... presumably, I'll be able to remove that fairly easy (relatively) and drill it out if it doesn't work.  
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    212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,591 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Alswagg, does the port side suffer simply from the 'hinging' upward when trying to remove, or from the repetitive torque from use, torqued by the input shaft? 
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    212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,591 ✭✭✭✭✭
    roger that, and thanks.... makes sense.  I've been working on this project as time allows, and hour here, two hours there- but the only thing I've done since Saturday is work on that hinge pin... that ONE hinge pin... it's maddening.  I've never had a fastener give me this much trouble or require this much effort... 
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    Handymans342Handymans342 Member Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Patientce grasshopper
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    212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,591 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Week four on one bolt... it haunts me... five good solid bites, and all broke the stainless, and one weld broke... that bolt is one with the bell housing, and both teamed against me... 

    Never. Ever. Ever. Have I encountered such a thing... no less than four highly competent people have also failed... it is thoroughly bonded. 
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    aero3113aero3113 Member Posts: 8,929 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Have you tried a VERY long breaker bar and bounce on it? I find that the bouncing motion helps break the tension.
    2008 330EC
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    Handymans342Handymans342 Member Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Post a pic Drew geeezzz
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    212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,591 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've tried breaker bars, welding, easy outs, reverse thread cobalt tapered slugs, reverse thread cobalt bits to allow new slug bite, impact guns, heat with mapp and straight o2, not to mention the heat while welding.  I've set a t70 3/4 socket into it with jb weld, then ended up welding the t70 in it.. I've filled it with stainless rods, with a 5/8 hex sticking out, and nothing has made it budge even the slightest.  

    I'm almost certain we came close multiple times to breaking the surrounding casting... 

    I've done the boiling water thing, the steam thing, a myriad of chemicals including lubes and even higher alcohol such as acetone and methanol (by product of another hobby of mine) and again, it hasn't budged even slightly.  
    It's comical at this point. The entire community is aware of it... apparently all the mariners are talking about it.. one dude who is trying to sell his marine repair shop said he's had several people ask to replace their pins when doing bellows cause they don't want to end up like this dude they heard about... that dude is me...  

    I hesitate to cut it, though that would work.  I could then plop that thing on a bench and get the proper angle on it, maybe even use a press to push increasing diameter bits into it until it pops right out.  

    If it wasn't my boat, this would be funny.. and it still is, but not as funny as it would be if it weren't. 

    I've heard more metallurgical terms lately than I knew existed... the jest of all of them comes back to bond... 

    There is a guy doing some work nearby next week, and he wants to see it.  He is apparently the welding master of the region.  I don't know him, but a guy I do know knows a guy who knows him or something like that, and he just wants to see if he can do what others can't.  I'm all for it... this hinge pin has defeated me... 

    Mother of all that's holy, this one freakin bolt is quite the story.  Everything else went smooth, and in retrospect, too smooth... something had to make up for it, right? 
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    aero3113aero3113 Member Posts: 8,929 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Since you tried everything with heat maybe you should try freezing it?
    2008 330EC
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    Handymans342Handymans342 Member Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yeah im sure you have some R12 around LOL
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    Michael TMichael T Member Posts: 7,227 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ....liquid nitrogen would do it?? How about cutting it flush then grinding it smooth,  then D&T ing it?
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