Anyone install a ATL Fuel Bladder in a 270 Fiesta Vee?
jmichels
Member Posts: 311 ✭✭
drained tank, cut open top 1/3 of tank, removed all baffles and sanded interior of whole tank and prepped for bladder.
Started install today and removed sending unit, fuel plate and all foam. Was able to squeeze it in there but not easily and not perfectly lined up inside old tank. No way in **** I can reach all the way in to put all the foam back. Was thinking maybe spray the **** out of the old tank with silicone spray and spray outside of bladder with silicone spray and put as much foam as I can fit in there while its out and then try and squeeze it in and put in piece by piece of foam and slide it back as I put em in. Thoughts? This is turning out to not be so easy as many claimed. Will silicone harm the bladder material? Didnt think it would as pretty much harmless to any material. Any input from previous installs appreciated. Need to get this baby in the water!!!
Started install today and removed sending unit, fuel plate and all foam. Was able to squeeze it in there but not easily and not perfectly lined up inside old tank. No way in **** I can reach all the way in to put all the foam back. Was thinking maybe spray the **** out of the old tank with silicone spray and spray outside of bladder with silicone spray and put as much foam as I can fit in there while its out and then try and squeeze it in and put in piece by piece of foam and slide it back as I put em in. Thoughts? This is turning out to not be so easy as many claimed. Will silicone harm the bladder material? Didnt think it would as pretty much harmless to any material. Any input from previous installs appreciated. Need to get this baby in the water!!!
Answers
Ya my tank rotted out on the bottom and developed a slow leak over the winter. So I had to drain it all out and then cut open the top of the tank, remove all baffles inside and grind everything down smooth from the baffles and skim coated some areas with a metal filler where they were rotting through on the bottom. It would be nightmare to replace the tank with a aluminum one as you would have to remove the motor, cut the bulk head and cut a hole in the floor of the aft cabin too. I went this route to try and eliminate all that. Just need to figure out how I am going to get the foam back in there. I have a few ideas and will know soon. If your tank is from same year Id watch out.
Doing this job the way you describe will result in owning a boat with a leak fixed in the tank perhaps, but what is the resale and insurability going to be? A brand new tank actually makes an older boat more desirable at resale because you aren't going to have to worry about it for another 10 years at least if it's done right. A fix like you are describing will have the opposite effect on the value of the boat, and with full disclosure make it difficult or impossible to sell, in my opinion.
Andy
Big Al - 2006 - 270 Express Crusier
Home port: Hammond Ind.
Boy you are off on a lot of aspects. With all due respect let me bring you up to speed.
1) the money it cost to get a custom built bladder versus a new tank is almost the same. The new bladder is double the cost of the aluminum original tank however eliminates the labor or removing the motor, cutting the aft cabin floor, carpet, bulk head etc. So its a wash. Rather spend more money on a quality bladder that will not rot out versus another aluminum tank. You should read up. Check out ATL Bladders. They are military grade and used in boats, helicopters and many types of things. They are not considered a down grade from a aluminum tank. Rather the opposite.
2) I have taken motors of of my previous boats more then 6-8 times. So yes I am very familiar with the process. Takes me about 2 hours to disconnect all wiring , hoses, etc and unbolt mounts and rig harness and about 2.5 to reinstall. Plus hour to take drive on and off. I didnt want to go through that again. If I did I would end up going through everything and replacing the coupler, gimbals, bellows etc. Not time for that yet.
3) The floor in the aft cabin was not cut or touched, just the exposed portion in the engine bay.
4) Not sure where you got your pricing from but a tank built to exact specifications as the existing 100 gallon tank from the exact same company still in business , Florida Marine Tank is $1400. If you can should be a proposal for a complete tank for $700 I think everyone would jump on that wagon.
5) Lastly a New fuel cell bladder is the same or better then a new aluminum tank. The fact is it now has a brand new tank, sending unit and connections . Both tanks are rated for marine use and USCG approved. So resale value is increased for having a new tank.
I appreciate your input however I think you should defer before making a post without having all the facts straight . Some of the most high dollar vessels and air crafts utilize bladders.
Thanks for the input. Good idea on the pam spray. thought about that too like vegetable oil. The engineer got back to me and told me where to find the material composition printed on the bladder. Once I found it it was indeed. 854-B so therefore I could put on as much silicone spray as desired.
After arm wrestling with it for a few hours this morning its finally in ! Going to fill it tommorow. Thanks for the suggestion.
Any pics? Would love to see this being done.
sure ill add some tommorow. Unfortunately didnt take as many as I should have . Ill see what I can dig up. Was quite a task to cut open the tank and hardest part was removing the internal baffles and grinding down all the welds smooth and put apoxy filler over any voids.
Also, are you're saying you paid $2800 for the bladder? Wow, OK.
I got a custom replacement tank built, same dimensions as the original Florida Marine OEM tank on my FV250 except with double thickness aluminum at Berry's in Santa Ana, CA for about $700 a little over a year ago. These guys build tanks for commercial boats and have a stellar reputation.
Well good luck and I hope everything works out. What you are doing just wouldn't be how I would advise anyone else on this forum with a leaking tank to proceed.
Cheers,
Andy
Also, did you ask your insurance company if this non-original fuel tank type installed the way you are describing is OK with them?
Andy.
Go Steelers!!!
Aero Tec Laboratories (ATL) of Ramsey, New Jersey, an AS 9100C registered company, manufactures extremely lightweight yet ultra rugged flexible fuel bladder tanks for the unmanned aerospace industry.
Many industry leaders such as AAI/Textron, Boeing, General Atomics and Raytheon, depend on ATL’s bladder tanks to fuel their unmanned projects and provide a lightweight, maximum fuel capacity alternative to rigid, or integral alloy tanks. These custom engineered rubberized nylon bladders safely accept gasoline, diesel, avgas, Jet A/B and all JP fuels. Specialized bladder materials are also available to resist many rocket and missile fuels including hydrogen peroxide, hydrazine, Otto Fuel II and HAN fuel.
ATL bladder tanks are fully collapsible for easy installation into tight and hard-to-access fuselage cavities and wing sections. Fully integrated fuel scavenging options such as sumps, baffles, surge-tanks, and weirs are available to prevent fuel starvation at near-empty conditions. ATL’s state-of-the-art machine shop can produce custom lightweight fittings and flanges to complete the ultimate fuel system. Because of its flexible construction, ATL bladder tanks are immune to shock, impact, vibration, launching, retrieval and even hard landings. Harsh environments are no match for ATL bladders as they can operate to 60,000 ft. within temperatures of 200°F (95°C) and -60°F (-50°C).
ATL prides itself on quick turn around and above all, quality. Modern CAD systems create soft tooling or "e-templates" which enable ATL to offer prototype bladders within 2 weeks, and ramped-up production within a month. Aero Tec Laboratories was presented with the General Atomics Predator award for quality and on-time delivery, as well as being recognized by AAI/Textron for outstanding support to the Shadow UAS program.
hether manned or unmanned, ground-defense vehicles benefit significantly from ATL’s Safety Fuel Cell bladder tanks. These tough, flexible fuel tanks deform on impact, suppress explosions with internal foam baffling, and can be coated for 7.62 self-sealing as well. Constructed of high-tensile rubberized fabrics, ATL’s fuel cell tanks cannot be dented, creased or vibration-cracked the way plastic and metallic tanks frequently are.
Automatic “upside-down” valves prevent fuel spillage in an overturn or collision, while internal “scavenging” systems allow fuel consumption down to the last drop.
As mentioned above, ATL’s fuel cells are filled with “safety-foam baffling” (per Mil-F-87260A) to defeat fuel surge and “slosh”, segregate incoming debris, prevent explosion, and allow the bladder to deform on impact without rupture.
ATL’s rugged fuel cell tanks are also widely used in trucks and trailers to transport gasoline, diesel, JP4 and other fuels in support of mobile communication systems, refueling of other vehicles, feeding power generators and moving fuel safely to remote locations.
To learn more or inquire about how ATL can supply your manned or unmanned project with flexible, lightweight fuel bladders, contact an ATL Sales Engineer at 800-526-5330, email atl@atlinc.com, or visit atlinc.com.Well, I have to say, coming from an aviation world, I have no problem with the bladder tank idea. I'd probably have it installed by a professional just because I've already dealt with the whole explosion thing and it's no fun.
But, unfortunately I have no value to add. Hope it works out well and please post pictures as it may help others out.
Dream 'Inn III -- 2008 400 Express