Pro's and con's of using a tablet as a chartplotter

LaReaLaRea Member, Moderator Posts: 7,747 mod
With so many people considering iPads and other touchscreen tablets in place of conventional marine chartplotters or multi-function displays (MFDs), I thought it might make an interesting discussion.  

Pro's:

Cost.  Tablets are cheap, and many people already own one for other reasons.  The high cost of marine MFDs is probably the biggest driver towards tablets. 

Ease of installation.  Tablets are slim and easy to install using a stalk or suction mount, so you can sometimes fit a larger display than you could with an MFD.  It can be done without making any permanent changes to the boat.  And I've seen some really impressive custom installations using hardwood or fiberglass bezels.  

Software.  Instead of being stuck with the MFD manufacturer's software and slow development cycles, you get to pick software from the commercial market (which is getting pretty good these days).  And, obviously, a tablet can run all sorts of other software. 

Con's:

Ease of use while underway.  In an express cruiser or sport boat, using a touchscreen while the boat is moving and bouncing can be almost impossible.  It's much harder compared to an MFD that has dedicated buttons and knobs with non-slip rubber covers. 

Visibility.  Tablets can be hard to read in bright sunlight because they are not as bright as MFDs.  Also, tablets have terrible problems with glare and reflections because touchscreens cannot use the same anti-glare screen coatings as MFDs.  (Anti-glare coatings get gummed up with fingerprints.)

Reliability.  Picture yourself caught in severe weather -- high winds, pounding seas, canvas leaking salt water all over the helm.  The safety of your crew depends on accurate navigation.  Will a tablet fail when you need it most?  Marine MFDs are designed for such conditions, and have a well-established track record of reliability.  


My thoughts:  

For most express cruisers and sport boats, I think a purpose-built marine MFD is safer and more practical than a tablet.  Certainly, any boat going offshore needs an MFD.  But an MFD won't fit into every budget.  Tablets provide attractive options -- especially for smaller boats used mostly in protected waters.  And some boaters might find tablets useful as a secondary or backup display.

Thoughts?  Tablet users - what do you like or dislike about your system?
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Comments

  • NavyCTRCNavyCTRC Member Posts: 303 ✭✭✭
    LaRae,

    One more con I'd like to mention and one of the reasons I MUST have an MFD.

    - Can't connect radar to overlay on an Ipad or similar.  I use the radar on my boat to track those pop up summer storms (I don't have to rush around like a mad man to put stuff away and take shelter in the cabin when a downpour is coming) and especially to navigate in the dark.  I like the idea of an Ipad for a back up as Navionics has some really great contour line software but my Ipad does not have built in GPS so it's a PITA.  I have a small handheld GPS anyway.
  • Liberty44140Liberty44140 Member Posts: 4,379 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Very happy with my iPad with navionics. Cheap and easy. Detail is outstanding. My previous boat had a color Furuno Chart Plotter and the iPad showed my location much better. Furuno was typically 50-100 feet off. I have a RAM suction mount for the iPad which makes it easy to see and it is right at my finger tips and I've only ever used the iPad to navigate under a Bimini or T Top so no sun issues. My 342 came with a Raymarine C70 and so far I've not seen the need to spring for the chip to make it a chartplotter as the iPad takes care of things. Should the iPad ever go down for some reason the iPhone can back it up just fine in a pinch. ALL THAT SAID - we only go up to 30 miles from home. One day I would like to do a several hundred mile trip and if/when that happens we will have the chip for the C70 or even something newer and more modern. iPad is great for day boating and long weekends but those that go 200, 300, 500 miles probably should have something more robust. 
    07' Cruisers 390 (Previous Rinker's: 06' 342EC & 01' 310FV)

  • 212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
    your tablet better have a true GPS card, not just a trio card of wifi/3-4g/gps... a peripheral GPS is best- that is a true GPS and doesn't use cell towers to triangulate... another thing about tablets and navionics app (which i LOVE) is if the hardware freezes or app locks up, you don't know it until you notice it isn't refreshing... you may be somewhere you don't wanna be if that happens... it's pretty obvious with most dedicated chart plotters I've seen, as they black out.  
  • Liberty44140Liberty44140 Member Posts: 4,379 ✭✭✭✭✭
    212 - I'll respectfully disagree that an iPad uses cell towers to triangulate. I shut off WiFi and Cell when we leave the dock so that it is not searching for service. I was told that the 3G/LTE have GPS cards. Most likely they are not like a true chartplotters GPS card but whatever it is it finds me just fine where there is zero wifi and zero cell service. I do agree that there is a risk in using a tablet not intended for marine use. If I were a saltwater boater I think I would rely on it less. 
    07' Cruisers 390 (Previous Rinker's: 06' 342EC & 01' 310FV)

  • aero3113aero3113 Member Posts: 9,042 ✭✭✭✭✭
    212 - I'll respectfully disagree that an iPad uses cell towers to triangulate. I shut off WiFi and Cell when we leave the dock so that it is not searching for service. I was told that the 3G/LTE have GPS cards. Most likely they are not like a true chartplotters GPS card but whatever it is it finds me just fine where there is zero wifi and zero cell service. I do agree that there is a risk in using a tablet not intended for marine use. If I were a saltwater boater I think I would rely on it less. 
    True, GPS gets its signal from satellites. It's a different signal than wifi. No wifi needed for GPS but the iPad needs to be 3G/LTE not wifi only to have the GPS card. If you have a wifi only iPad you can get a GPS receiver for around $100.
    2008 330EC
  • LaReaLaRea Member, Moderator Posts: 7,747 mod
    Integration with other boat systems is a key factor I neglected to mention.  Radar overlay and autopilot are two features you can only get with a real MFD.  

    Great point about GPS accuracy.  Modern marine GPS receivers are usually good to within 15 feet, not 50 like older systems. I'm not sure how accurate an iPad is. I think it only uses cell towers to reduce the GPS boot-up time.  
  • LaReaLaRea Member, Moderator Posts: 7,747 mod
    edited June 2016
    ... One day I would like to do a several hundred mile trip and if/when that happens we will have the chip for the C70 or even something newer and more modern. iPad is great for day boating and long weekends but those that go 200, 300, 500 miles probably should have something more robust. 
    You might be pleasantly surprised with the latest chart products for the C70.  The update will cost $99 and you can download it online from navionics.com.  The bottom contours are extremely detailed in many locations.   
  • 212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
    grrrrr....

    http://ipadpilotnews.com/2015/12/ipad-real-gps/  

    I realize it doesn't REQUIRE towers......  What y'all missed I stand by, though, that the card is a combined 3-4g/wifi/bluetooth/gps- which means the same antenna is used for each- and that the iPad 'cheats' to find location by triangulating towers... it will work without them, but it's reliant on the same card... having a card that does all is great for space concerns on the board, but bad for reliability.... which is why a tablet with either a peripheral device OR a second dedicated card is a good plan IF you are using the tablet in lieu of a plotter...

    I love the navionics app... it is dead balls accurate... I don't NEED it for my coastal excursions, but it's nice to have especially the depths on rarely used sound waterways..... what I don't like about it is when it crashes (fault of hardware or software? don't know) it doesn't give any indication other than freezing, and if you don't monitor it you won't notice... if you're cursory glancing, you may find yourself on a sand bar thinking you're in ten foot of water.   
  • LaReaLaRea Member, Moderator Posts: 7,747 mod
    Gotta wonder how the iPad and other tablets will affect marine electronics in the long run.  MFDs are optimized for the job, and they are significantly better in many ways than tablets, but the prices ...

    I bet Apple has manufactured at least 1000 times more iPads than Raymarine has sold MFDs. (300 million iPads and counting)  Raymarine can't compete price against that.  

    People will keep finding new ways to integrate tablets into marine systems - no doubt about it.  
  • StodgeStodge Member Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭✭
    If Garmin ever releases their software for Android (and not just iOS) there will be a lot more folks using tablets as chartplotters.  I'd use one as a backup, but never as  my primary.  I like my AIS, DSC and sonar too much to give up a fixed mount, dedicated chartplotter.

    2002 FV 342 on Lake St. Clair - Past Commodore SHC - Vessel Examiner USCGAUX

  • Dream_InnDream_Inn Member, Moderator Posts: 7,661 mod

    I guess none of you have seen that Raymarine has come out with an app that will allow you to overlay their radar onto your phone or tablet.  I think Furono has it as well.

    I like my MFD and will stick with it (12" is really nice and can see what I need to).  I can overlay what I want and it works well.  Phone or tablet as backup is fine for me.

    With the new SmartCraft app, that will be available as well.  I think it's great having all the options.

    Dream 'Inn III -- 2008 400 Express

  • LaReaLaRea Member, Moderator Posts: 7,747 mod
    Yes, but you have to buy the radar/MFD package.  You can't just buy a radar and view it on a tablet.  Keep in mind, they make their living by selling hardware.  They will only embrace tablets to the extent that it helps them sell their own stuff.  

    Mercury is taking a gamble with the Smartcraft Bluetooth interface, which could potentially hurt sales of VesselView and MercMonitor.
  • Michael TMichael T Member Posts: 7,227 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2016

    I had both - in one unit!

    The Raymarine E packages provide touch screen and rotary capability in the same GPS/Plotter unit.

    On a very rough day I agree with @LaRea that your finger can wander a bit making it hard to touch exactly what you want. BUT mine was fixed to the dash. I have friends who had HAND HELD units and would have the Admiral use it or take the helm while they used it.  That is what my Admiral did after a few months so we had that too! As one friend said if it's too rough to do that I shouldn't be out there. If I got caught out there it's still doable and how many times has that happened to me....zero.

    As for me, I only had to use the rotary knob function once when 3 foot waves were present with a very stiff cross wind and we were coming into a group of islands and I wanted the zoom feature, so I switched to knob/button use ......the rest of the time the touch screen soooooo outperformed the rotary knob/push button feature that is was ridiculous.

    I loved the zoom, the Bluetooth sling features, the load it at home and go on the fly.

    If I really like both options but if I had to choose only one it would be - touch screen.

    If I had a fixed knob/button unit "in the dash" I'd for sure use a tablet or smart phone with touch screen....BTW we DID as the Admiral after a few months of owning the fixed, in dash, unit had the Raymarine and Navionics apps on both her phone and our tablet. We could load at home etc. and we had a 3 station touch screen system. It was AWESOME! To be honest it was a bit of a pita to set up and co-ordinate, probably because we didn't have a 5 year old living with us but we did get it done.....Now its deleted as we don't have a boat :-(

  • LaReaLaRea Member, Moderator Posts: 7,747 mod
    Interesting - I've considered buying that system.  How was the touchscreen for glare and reflections?  Maybe Raymarine has beaten that problem.

    MT, imagine your worst boating nightmare:  You're in an unfamiliar river, caught out in bad weather, zero visibility, but you can't slow down because somebody needs medical attention, or whatever the scenario ... would you still have used the touchscreen?  Or would you have reverted to the buttons?

    I think that's the main question for any MFD or tablet:  how would it perform in the worst-case scenario, when you absolutely, positively need it to work?  
  • reneechris14reneechris14 Member Posts: 3,134 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I use the Plan2nav app on android with my phone and Samsung tablet I put my MFD on for sonar when fishing.That way I have 2  7" displays.but MFD is primary for navigation .but when I get home I can see my track speed distance.I think tablets have all ready changed quite a few thinks like MFD'so coming already loaded with maps.years back it cost $.
    2005 Rinker FV342  Pawcatuck river,Ct
  • Michael TMichael T Member Posts: 7,227 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @La Rea, I have never been in that scenario, although I am sure others have given our list size, in 50 years. So when I prepare I have to do so on likely outcomes for me.

    The answer to using the "fixed" touch screen in absolutely severe conditions would be no I would use the rotary knob because I had the dual capability.

    But would I not buy a touch screen for the one time the conditions might be nuts with an injured person on board..... the answer would be no. Because the odds are too low. If I thought like that I'd never take the boat out.

    However, all of that worry is moot because we always have a second back-up on board.... a hand held GPS/Plotter (tablet/smart phone) synched to the main system.

    If the hand held could not be used due to conditions I think I would be on my knees praying because we would be in the edges of a category 5.

    IMO the touch screen is the modern way to go because it is so far superior to the single option rotary /push button knob.

    Given a choice, of course I would purchase (and I did) the dual version,  but I would be absolutely comfortable with a fixed touch screen as a main unit.

    That is because, no matter what, we always had the back-up of a tablet of smart phone with the apps.

  • LaReaLaRea Member, Moderator Posts: 7,747 mod
    Your comments about the Raymarine touchscreen/rotary combo are encouraging.  I'll give that system another look.

    Never been in a situation like that?  Well, I know you're smart, and now I know you're lucky too!  I definitely consider the worst-case scenario when choosing nav gear.  More than once, I've ended up in bad situations where a failure of my nav gear would have put me in real jeopardy.  The odds are low, but the consequences can be high.  
  • Handymans342Handymans342 Member Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hopefully I will have my new Raymarine equipment soon. Will send pics.
  • Michael TMichael T Member Posts: 7,227 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Steve - make sure you order the "rock dodger" app!....Too soon? Sorry :-)
  • Handymans342Handymans342 Member Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    MT, I just dont understand you latley
  • Dream_InnDream_Inn Member, Moderator Posts: 7,661 mod
    edited June 2016
    (Handy, it's because he doesn't own a Rink...-oh, almost said it, he's on a boat forum withput a boat.  It will change your attitude, especially in the summer)

    Dream 'Inn III -- 2008 400 Express

  • LaReaLaRea Member, Moderator Posts: 7,747 mod
    I saw that Rinker plans to start bringing "forward drive" propulsion into the lineup.  Luckily, Handy had a skeg to protect his props.  But "rock dodger" would have been better.
  • MarkBMarkB Member Posts: 3,973 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My Lowrance hds touch has all the features of an iPad and is robust. I also perform updates on it twice a year. The map details are amazing with 1 ft contours. 

    Boat Name: King Kong

    "Boat + Water = Fun"

  • DanD2DanD2 Member Posts: 848 ✭✭✭
    So on my 342, I have an HDS 5 and Globalmap 3300c. They are 2005 vintage so by today's standard, they are antiques. I've been wanting to upgrade for a while but just can't justify spending  $$ on an MFD. If I was out in the ocean, it certainly would be a different story.
    this year, I decided to remove the 3300 and make a filler with cherry wood and mount my Dell Venue using Navionics. It looks cool, I like it but it certainly has some drawbacks. Integration, customization and glare are the biggest but I'm using my old HDS 5 for the Sirius weather and other ship info. Someday I will upgrade my MFD...Not the best picture but you can see my Venue on the bottom left in this picture.


    No longer a boat owner.....previous boat - 2005 Rinker Fiesta Vee 342
  • Michael TMichael T Member Posts: 7,227 ✭✭✭✭✭
    DI I saw the forward propulsion also, but didn't take it seriously. Do you really think that they are serious? ...and on what? If Rinker still had a 400 that might be a candidate. The 400 would certainly run better, imo, with forward propulsion but the cost????? And the service. Guys I know who have that say they are always friggin' around with the drive to hull seals. If there's no new Rinker 400 or 500 in the works is anyone seriously thinking of the expense of that on an EC 360 or whatever it's going to be called...an EX370???? The 502/BlllX drives are perfect combos for the 360, why even consider a FPD? I think someone has been smoking that funny stuff at HQ!
  • Michael TMichael T Member Posts: 7,227 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Grandpa Steve, have you lost your sense of humor? We all hit rocks - embrace it. It's good for the economy! :-) Or you in a bad mood because your diesel economy on the Key West Experience wasn't much better than what I would have gotten with my 502s....watch out guys that outta get him going!
  • Michael TMichael T Member Posts: 7,227 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @DD2, imo you did an amazing job. If the glare was bothering you, could you make a Velcro on mini hood of something like black canvas with a small front like a ball cap to shade it? Does your Admiral (or you) sew?
  • aero3113aero3113 Member Posts: 9,042 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Michael T said:
    @DD2, imo you did an amazing job. If the glare was bothering you, could you make a Velcro on mini hood of something like black canvas with a small front like a ball cap to shade it? Does your Admiral (or you) sew?
    They might even sell an anti glair screen protector for your tablet.
    2008 330EC
  • Michael TMichael T Member Posts: 7,227 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hey aero this is off the topic (sorry guys but aero is on the forum tonight) but you probably know the answer to this. The Admiral and I watched Quantum of Solace, Daniel Craig's second Bond movie. In it a high speed single engine airplane attacks the old cargo plane bond was flying. What was that prop driven stunt-type fighter plane? The Admiral asked. I had no idea.
  • aero3113aero3113 Member Posts: 9,042 ✭✭✭✭✭
    MT it's an Aermacchi SF.260TP. Used by many European countries to transition fighter pilots from piston aircraft to jet aircraft.
    2008 330EC
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