2003 Rinker 342 Fiesta Vee: Survey/Sea Trail completed, question, opinion, comments on results

Volkl1996

I'm creating a new thread since this one is getting a little off topic: http://rinkerboats.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/55097#Comment_55097

Survey and sea trial on the 2003 342 completed yesterday. 

- Spider cracks in the blue paint on the port side tested for moisture with the meter; no structural damage. Surveyor states water has probably gotten into the cracks. He states it's cosmetic. He was surprised though when he saw the extent of the cracks. 

- Forward hatch deck area has spider cracks that as the surveryor put it "have that noise you do not want to hear when you hit  the fiberglass with the rubber hammer"

- Same for an area around 3 of the sun pad snaps - both areas move with weight

- shower sump pump not working

- forward bilge pump not working

- Genny thru hull for the exhaust spraying water, which seemed odd to me and the surveyor. While sitting on the back seat I could feel water spraying me, no wind. He thinks it's not moving enough water and needs a new impeller. 

- When a full load was put on the genny it tripped the breaker. Only when the surveyor tunred on the stove top (heat)

-Outside refrig and ice maker would not come on

- I saw more extensive flaking/cracking of the paint on the arch

- Port windshield has become disconnected from the frame in front of the port bench seat. We could not tell if the frame has lifted, the windshield has sunk down or both. About a 3/8" inch gap that extend about 1 foot.

The surveyor and broker state all of the snaps for the sunpad need to be re-seated and that will resolve the moisture problem. on the deck I challenged this by asking "How will it dry out then". No answer. I also asked what if the core under the fiberglass has rot. No answer.  I asked what's the resolution for the moisture and soft deck around the forward hatch. I did not get a good answer. Under weight I could actually see the deck move. 

She hit WOT at 4600 RPMs and 35+ MPH. The engines performed well, boat runs very well. They let me run her for a while and I was impressed. Only issue is at 6'3" I can't stand at the helm, I have to lean forward (no isinglass up) or to the left. I tried sitting though the windshield frame and bow rail obstruct my view. I had this same issue on my Sea Ray 330DA. This could be a deal breaker for me.    

Thoughts and opinions on the foredeck flexing/spider cracking? On the arera closest to the forward hatch the surveyor said "I would not put weight on it or jump on it"

Thoughts on why the genny exhaust us spraying?  

Should I be concerned about the Blue Awlgrip paint spider cracking and showing signs of moisture?

What about the windshield separating from the windshield frame? Anyone ever seen this before?

Surveyors overall opinion was this is a good boat, for it's age. He is reputable, I liked him, thought he was thorough and knowledgeable.  He's never seen a windshield separate like that, he thought the exhaust spraying was odd, he's never seen a colored hull crack like that. He thinks it hardened too fast when painted. 


Thanks

LaRea

The biggies are (1) top speed is too low, and (2) possible structural damage to foredeck and window frame.  However, all the little things on your list show that the PO did not invest much time and energy in the boat.  Shower sump, fwd bilge, cockpit fridge and ice maker all not working?  When you add them all up, it suggests a neglectful owner, which means there's a risk of hidden problems.  

If you like the boat, you are in a very strong position to negotiate price.  

frenchship

Foredeck flexing is the worst part that need to be carefully inspected by a gelcoat expert.
could be a very expensive repair if any delamination of the substrates, plus all the rest show 
neglected boat.
Be careful.

Black_Diamond

The genny exhaust is not a steady stream of water, so some spray is normal. Tripping the breaker with a load is a concern. If it just shut down with a load it needs plugs. 

The cockpit frig/ice maker: both plug into an outlet under the round trash can under the lid over the ice maker: they do come unplugged. Ice maker is A/C only. Frig might be 12v only, I had to add the A/C option to mine. Both the frig and ice maker have on/off switches too. 

4600 rpm: too low as noted, wot should be near 5200. Over propped likely from the factory. 

Forward bilge: easy to burn up from running dry or the float is bad. Shower sump pumps go bad too. 

The deck on my 342 is not 'solid'. It always has some give. I'd have a fiberglass guy look at those soft spots for sure. 

I'd be looking for the owner to pony up fixing all that stuff, after you set a price so they eat it all. 

Volkl1996

Great feedback as always, thank you.

I don't think the boat has been neglected. I have reviewed all of the invoices since new, and I know the shop that does the regular maintenance, very reputable. The sellers are on top of all of the required scheduled maintenance/service, waxing, etc.

I even saw invoices for "speaker not working", and "installed new speakers", which suggests to me the seller is not mechanically inclined at all and turned everything over to the shop to do. 

We pulled the refrig/ice maker and checked for power at the outlet. The outlet is getting power. 

Volkl1996

From the surveyor 

"WOT was 4800 RPM @ 35 knots. Manufacturers recommended max RPM is 4600-5000 so it is right in the middle. It may pick up a little RPM's with more trim in the drives."

NavyCTRC

I have windshields get seperated, usually some very heavy pounding in very rough water.  As long as the frame itself is not bent or broken, it's a pretty easy fix.

Volkl1996

NavyCTRC said:

I have windshields get seperated, usually some very heavy pounding in very rough water.  As long as the frame itself is not bent or broken, it's a pretty easy fix.

Thanks, the frame does not appear to be bent. We could push it back down easily, it simply sprung back up on release.

What's the fix?

Black_Diamond

Might just be missing a screw on the frame. 

rasbury

What's the asking price of this boat?

Volkl1996

rasbury said:

What's the asking price of this boat?

$53,000, negotiated to less. 

Volkl1996

Black_Diamond said:

Might just be missing a screw on the frame. 

So we saw two very small holes in the top of the windshield about 6 inches apart just under wear it's come loose from the frame. None of us could figure out what those holes were foreally. I guessed that they had something to do with the installation of the windshield to the frame. None of us could figure out how these windshields are installed inside  the frame.

FDNY49

Get an inboard!

Michael T

There's too much wrong IKMO. I'd look elsewhere. At some point a "good price" becomes worrisome. To me I'd be  worried. I am sorry if this is not what you may wish to hear but I don't want you to buy a lemon.

Volkl1996

Michael T said:

There's too much wrong IKMO. I'd look elsewhere. At some point a "good price" becomes worrisome. To me I'd be  worried. I am sorry if this is not what you may wish to hear but I don't want you to buy a lemon.

I don't disagree. The contracted negotiated price is Fair, I would not call it good. It's a sellers boating market. Boats are selling at list or 90%+ of list. 

Volkl1996

FDNY49 said:

Get an inboard!

Not sure how this relates to the post. As best I can tell this make/model only comes with outdrives. 

TonyWalker

Actually, the 342, among others, does have an inboard option.  Using so called "V" drives.  Not many built  that way as I understand it.

Black_Diamond

You do not want the inboards. 

MarkB

For that price on a 342 I wouldn't expect it to be perfect. I'm not sure how much more you'll have to pay for a perfectly operating  boat. Some things are easy to fix if you are handy and have time.

But if you want the boat to be in perfect shape you might end up paying much more (I can see a boat of that since and age going for $65k to $70k if it was in perfect shape).

MarkB

A few people I know intentionally bought boats with fixable problems at a low price point. They knew they'd have to throw  $15k at it, but would still come out cheaper after all the work is done. As long as you know what you're dealing with. 


I know some guys where it worked out well and others where they've spent tens if thousands more than they ever wanted to.

Volkl1996

MarkB said:

For that price on a 342 I wouldn't expect it to be perfect. I'm not sure how much more you'll have to pay for a perfectly operating  boat. Some things are easy to fix if you are handy and have time.

But if you want the boat to be in perfect shape you might end up paying much more (I can see a boat of that since and age going for $65k to $70k if it was in perfect shape).

I'm handy and can resolve most of the issues myself. I'm not a fiberglass person though nor do I know about structural issues with fiberglass. What I think about regarding these issues is at some point I'm going to want to sell this boat, then it's my problem to deal with when it gets surveyed again.

Other than changing the oil, a fuel pump once, impellers and the spark plugs on a generator, they're not my thing either. I wouldn't even begin to know where to look regarding it not being able to take a full load. 

The list price for this boat is what they are listing for in this area, for ones in good shape. It's actually listed on the higher end and was marketed as a great boat. So this is by no means a great deal at the listed or contracted price in my opinion.

I do understand what you're saying though, and the 340 I was looking at probably falls into the category you describe. 

MarkB

I think you have your answer then. If a boat has issues then the price has to reflect that. Why not get a quote from a fibreglass guy to fix it. You could then consider an offer which will allow you sufficient savings to pay for the glass work and make it worth your while.

My friend recently picked up a 32 ft pursuit that needed work. He paid less than $40k. He knew most of the issues before he bought. Had some suprises along the way as well but kept budget aside for that. By the time he's done fixing it up he probably will spend $10k. So in total just under $50k. That boat in tip top shape is probably worth  $60 to $70k. So with a little bit of work he saved himself some good money.

There's only 2 ways that result in happiness. A discounted boat you are happy to do some work on or something that is turnkey.  

Volkl1996

MarkB said:

I think you have your answer then. If a boat has issues then the price has to reflect that. Why not get a quote from a fibreglass guy to fix it. You could then consider an offer which will allow you sufficient savings to pay for the glass work and make it worth your while.

My friend recently picked up a 32 ft pursuit that needed work. He paid less than $40k. He knew most of the issues before he bought. Had some suprises along the way as well but kept budget aside for that. By the time he's done fixing it up he probably will spend $10k. So in total just under $50k. That boat in tip top shape is probably worth  $60 to $70k. So with a little bit of work he saved himself some good money.

There's only 2 ways that result in happiness. A discounted boat you are happy to do some work on or something that is turnkey.  

Agreed. I have already contacted the broker and asked him to ask the seller to fix everything in my list.

 Regarding the spider cracks and flexing, I asked for a repair or for an assessment/estimate from a fiberglass specialist.

I'm asking for everything on my list (my list does not include everything the surveyor found) in hopes that the seller comes back with a discounted price, or the best case scenario, the seller does agree to fix everything. If I'm the seller I would have the easy items fixed, and then offer a discounted price for the remaining items. I've been on both sides of the sell of a boat many times, and in my opinion it's much like buying a house.

Black_Diamond

Just an fyi on the genny exhaust, mine looks like this:

Black_Diamond

Volkl1996

Black_Diamond said:

Thank you for taking that picture. It's definitely not the same on the one I looked at. The generator exhaust sprays about 5 feet wide all over the side of the boat and even blows up into the back of the boat.

The Main Exchange

Might be the exhaust flapper?

Black_Diamond

No flapper on mine. I bet the flapper is the issue. 

Michael T

There was a flapper on my both my 2013 EC 310 and my 2014 EC 360 and they still looked exactly like the shot BD took. I think something is lodged in your exhaust line that is making that funny spray, unless there is a problem with the fiberglass sump that the generator feeds into, which is located in the engine bay.

Dream_Inn

Mine has a flapper, but it doesn't make it go like you are saying.  I'm betting something is just not correct with the flapper.

Volkl1996

From my list of items the sellers agreed to fix the sump pump and bilge pump, that's it. I was a bit surprised as they now have a survey that shows their boat has fiberglass and potential structure issues, generator issues and some other issues. The broker said that's all they're willing to do, period. 

I have to formally reject in writing, which I've done, and will be getting my deposit back. My search continues.