Hard Starting After Day Of Being Anchored
rinker270nb
Member Posts: 207 ✭✭✭
It'd be great to get input on my recent starting problem. Recently when I start my engine after being anchored for 3+ hours- radio, fridge, all being used. It cranks but doesn't turn over. I have to put it in Nuetral and give it a lot of throttle to get it started. Brand new batteries and charged, this was my first corrective measure.
It seems like the fuel pump isn't working, feels like there's not enough battery to power the fuel pump but starter sounds healthy and cranks, just doesn't turn over- hence giving it throttle. Next guess is ACI sensor?
Starts fine when leaving the dock after disconnecting shore power, starts without throttle after it runs a bit when out on anchor- say I drive for 10 mins and turn it off and start it again. I am trying to tie the problem to the battery being low, strong starter spin, and lack of fuel. Any thoughts here would be great, I am going to dig into it further tonight!
It seems like the fuel pump isn't working, feels like there's not enough battery to power the fuel pump but starter sounds healthy and cranks, just doesn't turn over- hence giving it throttle. Next guess is ACI sensor?
Starts fine when leaving the dock after disconnecting shore power, starts without throttle after it runs a bit when out on anchor- say I drive for 10 mins and turn it off and start it again. I am trying to tie the problem to the battery being low, strong starter spin, and lack of fuel. Any thoughts here would be great, I am going to dig into it further tonight!
Comments
The fact that you don't issues leaving the dock or after short runs leads me to believe it's something with the batteries being depleted.
PC BYC, Holland, MI
I had the injectors and IAC motor replaced with no luck....was only when the engine started drinking coolant that the mechanic pulled the plugs and eventually discovered I had cracked cylinder heads (both banks). I hope that is not the case for you but I would pull the plugs to see if they tell a story.
2001 310 Fiesta Vee
T-5.0 FWC Mercs w/ B2
I use one of these to make sure I dont drop too low.
06 Rinker 270
Dream 'Inn III -- 2008 400 Express
I had a new impeller installed in May, I am anchored in 20 ft of water in Chicago Playpen. Will look to see how pump is acting.
It's getting a tune up Wed. It wants to start but seems like it's starving fuel, hence the needed throttle to start. My top guesses are tune up, bad voltage at fuel pump, something w fuel to EFI,eg fuel filter, computer, etc.
Thanks for the help, let me know if anything comes to mind. I feel it should start without the throttle being used, turnkey.
Your switch 1 may be your starting and drained it too much with all that running while at anchor.
Could be wrong, still fairly new. But once I figured this out I stopped having issues on the hook. Good luck.
06 Rinker 270
- IAC
- Fuel pressure at rail, slow or dying pump
- Vacuum draw at anti-syphon
06 Rinker 270
other than battery, which should NEVER drop to under 11... or even under 12 so far as I see it on a resting battery, your issue may be centric to timing, which could be indicative of a timing chain slopping up during break in (the nylon bushings between the links intended to quieten the thing wear quickly and create a mm or two of extension with all the links on the taught side of the chain between the top of the cam and the right side of the crank combined)....
a engine that has been re-tar-ded (silly forum filter) will turn quickly but take longer to fire- and engine advanced is harder to turn, but fires very quickly. your sensors work against you in some circumstances... the manifold absolute pressure (map) sensor tells the pcm it's okay to advance... the idle air control (IAC) plunger thinks it needs air (creating leaner condition), and the air intake temperature (AIT) thinks it has cooler more controllable air now that the engine room has cooled off (external the engine, which is still warmer than it would be at true cold start), which all point to advancing the ignition......... and making it harder for the starter to turn it.....
so.... do me a favor.... next time the engine does this, or next time you suspect the engine will do this, turn the key on and wait about ten seconds before you throw it over to start.... let the computer collect variables anew, as opposed to the conditions it was in the seconds prior to you last killing it... I wager your problem (if not batter, @ 11vdc it's def your battery) will go away... which makes this post primarily for the benefit of others reading it, I guess.
It's been progressively getting harder to start, tells me something is failing. The engine is under warranty, I will replace the IAC, check the fuel pressure, and then vacuum draw. Correcting two of the three items won't cost me, I just have to get a Merc certified mechanic to my boat!
http://rinkerboats.vanillaforums.com/discussion/5484/pre-start-fuel-pump-process#latest
when you turn the key, a built in test (BIT) happens in about half a second, and those critical sensors are monitored for health, primarily, but also for parameter. the big sensors are MAP/MAF, CPS, CKPS, temperature, TPS, and IAC... the IAC is dependent on temperature relative to TPS, as is spark due to MAP/MAF-TPS-IAC-AIT... they all play along and represent variables on the computer sorta like an algebra equation- if a can't be solved as reconciled against b, f, and h, the PCM/ECM/u has a choice: either it takes a swag at what it doesn't know, or, it doesn't start... it can run with one missing so long as the others are dead nuts accurate.
the problem with an engine that is holding temporary variables in it's memory, and then the key-on BIT reports back, (example) a temperature hotter than expected (say 160* as opposed to ambient 90*), and the other sensors aren't being polled yet (engine isn't operational)- there you have it... it is going to trim fuel and spark for a warmer engine, advancing timing off base, and making the engine harder to turn- acting precisely like a low battery.
fuel pressure should never be a variable.. it should be etched in stone... say, 43.5psi, which is the emerging industry standard for rating flow of automotive injectors, is the PRESSURE- and is the same from idle to redline.... the VOLUME at that pressure is decided upon RPM/TPS reconciled against the temperature and MAP/MAF and is what the PCM regulates in expressions of Short Term Fuel Trims and Long Term Fuel Trims, which do exactly like they sound like- and control duty cycle (how long injector is open) of the injector which regulates the VOLUME of fuel per cycle so long as the PRESSURE is well maintained no matter what the demand is... IF- if that PCM is holding information it thinks is still accurate, or if it sniffs the temperature (which it does) and compares them to other variable common at that temperature and applies them (advancing timing), it can be the cause of your hard start.
the wiggle in your timing chain can also be causing the advance, and due to break in... the PCM would not know this until it compares positioning of the CPS and CKPS...
either way, all of what we're discussing is controlled via PCM with the exception of fuel pressure... it doesn't even monitor fuel pressure... it's just expected to be accurate and maintained... so... the solution is to turn key, wait a bit for fuel to come to pressure (happens fast) as well as short term environmental variables to be dumped, and then turn to start...
it could also be the ignition timing has walked a bit.... which is also common... an advanced engine will BAM fire right up, though it's harder for the starter to turn, where as an engine re-tar-ded some will turn easier, but is harder to catch that spark and run...
if your timing chain has worn and is stretching more now between the top of the cam and the bottom of the crank sprockets (taught side) that accounts for a few degrees the PCM doesn't know about... if the rotor button is worn or the dizzy tower points are worn, that allows spark to strike less precisely- also accounting for loss of precision spark timing..
but your issue seems to be centric to fueling when starting- which, I mentioned in passing could be ignition timing, but, not as likely as the IAC- which is also involving the PCM.... the PCM believes the IAC to be in a position open enough to fire the engine, and which it likely would be if there weren't obstructions blocking the flow of air.. so... a can of throttle body cleaner and a clean IAC will likely remedy your situation.