Battery switch position

MarkB

06Rinker, sounds like your isolator is working, but the charger is only wired up to one battery.  This would mean that you could only charge the second battery through the first battery by combining the circuits in emergency start mode. 

I suggest you find out if your charger can charge more than one battery simultaneously. If so, I think it can be wired differently so you could leave your switch on bat #1 and charge both batteries.

Mercury2005

Thanks to all that responded, however I don't think my question was answered.
Looking at the wiring diagram in my owners manual it looks like one outside terminal of the battery switch goes to bat 1 and the other outside terminal goes to bat 2 and the center (what they call 'feeder') is the center, and goes to the engine. Also the cable on one outside terminal is very large, I am guessing 2/0, also same for center terminal, however the other outside terminal has a smaller diameter wire and this terminal/wire appears to go to the starter. I would think, and could be wrong that both outside terminals should go to batteries and the center go to starter. I say this because if one bat was dead, then having the switch in emergency start would pull from both bats.  Is this correct?

Lake_Bum

I guess I have done it wrong for years and years, on several different boats!  Almost all of my setups have been just 2 batteries, wired to a Perko switch that has position 1, 2, or ALL.  I always run marine deep cycle batteries for both, and I have routinely moved the switch while the engine has been running, and never had a problem.  I have never used an isolator. The engines main power wire, goes directly to the perko switch.  This system has worked flawlessly, but have I just been getting lucky, by toggling the switch from battery to battery while running, even though I have no isolator?  

MarkB

Mercury 2005, I believe the battery switch should simply be selecting which battery runs the starter. 

Normally battery 1 is a crank battery and used for the starter. Battery 2 is the house and should be a deep cycle.

And emergency should bridge 1 and 2 so they both power the starter. 

You would only ever use emergency if battery 1 was dead. 

06Rinker270

@Mercury2005 that is the way I understand, so yes that is correct.  I have had to use the emergency start a few times when I first got the boat and did not fully understand how to use the switch. 

Side question, where in Annapolis do you keep your boat?  HUGE fan of Annapolis. 

@MarkB I think you may be correct sir as that has been my initial thought since it was installed. 

Dream_Inn

@06Rinker270 Patrick, he keeps it over at Rhode River.  Right now his boat is on land just down from mine (best place to get your boat worked on).  Did you check out Rhode River when you were looking our way?

@Mercury2005 you are correct.  This would allow you to move switch between batteries to the starter.

06Rinker270

I dont believe I have, will check it out next time I am out that way.  Admiral is on me to move it there.  

Dream_Inn

06Rinker270 said:

I dont believe I have, will check it out next time I am out that way.  Admiral is on me to move it there.  

You can tell him I sent you and for you to tell him to give you a good deal!   Also ask him about the swimming pool they are going to put in.  (I've spent my share there for sure, unfortunately, and he's came thru for a lot of my boating friends)

Mercury2005

Great discussion on battery switch. With new batteries installed, I put the switch to bat 1 and tried the starter, it cranked the engine and the house lights worked, moved to bat 2 and same thing, eng cranks and house lights work, so I guess, like a few said, just select a bat for start and go from there.  I will trace out the alt wiring and the charger wiring when I get a chance.
BTW, we own a covered slip at Piney Narrows on Kent Island. Currently looking to get a lift installed, permits have been submitted.
We named our boat "Knot Working"
Looking forward to the Rinker summer meet and get to know some of the great folks on this site.

Cableguy Greg

Mercury2005 said:

We named our boat "Knot Working"
Looking forward to the Rinker summer meet and get to know some of the great folks on this site.

I like the name.

06Rinker270

With both batteries installed, especially new, all will work no matter which switch your on(except off).  Its just a matter of using the correct battery for its intended use.

I bought my Rinker in Kent Narrows at Mears Point.  I love that area, great marinas and some gorgeous yachts. 

@Dream_Inn I will certainly do that.  Appreciate the tip.

Mercury2005

went to the boat today, put the switch on 'off' and everything still worked except the engine would not crank.

MarkB

Yes so it sound slide it is dedicated to the starter. Can you confirm then that battery one is a crank battery and battery two is a deep cycle? 

06Rinker270

Are the house lights suppose to work if the battery switch is off?  I would think once you turn the switch to off nothing should work.  Now if connected to shore power, then a different story.    

Dream_Inn

06Rinker270 said:

Are the house lights suppose to work if the battery switch is off?  I would think once you turn the switch to off nothing should work.  Now if connected to shore power, then a different story.    

Most house lights run off 12VDC.  So, with battery switch, nada.  Even with shore power they won't come on without battery switch on.

Handymans342

Why dont boats have inverters like RVs?

Dream_Inn

Handymans342 said:

Why dont boats have inverters like RVs?

Bigger ones do.  Probably just too much weight on the smaller boats.

Handymans342

Solid state DI. Very small

randy56

It would take a huge inverter to run everything on your boat, we use a small on for a fan in the cabin,sometimes when it's not so hot you need AC, and keep air moving. 

Handymans342

I had the same stuff on my RV. Lights, fridge, water pump, what am I missing?

Mercury2005

Thanks to all on this topic.  I have no idea why my boat is wired the way it is, but except for the engine starter everything still works with the battery in OFF.
I installed two new (2) Vmax 31 series batts (XTR12-155 12 volts, 155AH deep cycle, extreme AGM).  I took a pic before removing the wires from the batts and installed back the way they were.
It does concern me that things still work with bat in off, but how can I fix it?
Next time I go to the boat I will remove the switch panel and try to get a really good pic of how the batt switch is wired, trace the wires to where they go and post the pic so all you guys can determine if it is wired correctly.

06Rinker270

You should have 1 deep cycle and 1 crank battery.  You want deep cycle for your house and you want that strong crank battery to fire up your engine. 

Mercury2005

Follow-up to switch position. When switch is in "OFF" should there still be power to helm, hatch lift, etc?
If not, what do I do to solve the problem?

aconthelake

I’m 3 years in and Here is what I have been told / learned:

Switch #1 is the starter battery and #2 is the house battery

1) On shore power, the 2 bank battery charger charges both batteries regardless of switch position as the batteries are wired directly to the charger. However, Switch position #2 (house) selected to run accessories while tied up.
2) Under way, put switch to “both” so that the engine alternator charges both battery banks. If either #1 or #2 is selected, only that battery will be charged. “Both” recharges the starter battery which you just used to start and the house battery which is running you lights/fridge/radio etc.
3) At anchor (no shore power), select #2 (house) to run all the accessories ‘ fridge etc to avoid draining the starter battery, which will stay charged until needed. Switch to #1 just before you try to start the engine. Ideally, not the “both” position so if the house drained overnight, it will not be pulling on the starter battery while you are cranking. Once started, switch to “both’ as in 2) above which will then top up the starter and the house while keeping the accessories going.

As a final note: we have had temperatures here in Canada over 45 deg C (113 def F) and lots of guys are having flat battery issues when charging on shore power.   Apparently, with high outside temperature, fridges have been running flat out and drawing more amps from the house batteries than the chargers (4 amp) can put in. So the battery runs down, the fridge goes off, the charger (on shore power) then recharges the house until there is enough voltage for the fridge to kick in again, say 10V.  And then repeat. So when you get to your boat, the voltage is down and there is a puddle of water below the fridge.  To get round this I’m putting in a beefier charger with 10 amp per bank, so 20 amp, to have enough current to run the fridge and keep the battery topped up.

Thoughts or comments?

skennelly

Sorry disagree with some of this.

The alternator should charge both batteries regardless of battery position.  The alternator should run to a battery isolator and from there independent cables run through the battery switch to each battery direct.

You should not use the "both" switch setting unless it's an emergency and you need both batteries to start the engine.  Otherwise leave on position 1 for starting and position 2 when at anchor.

Never change the switch position when the engine is running.

With the switch off...you should not have power to the helm ect.  Only bilge pumps because they are wired direct.

aconthelake

Comments appreciated as I try to understand.😊.

So whether charging thru on-shore power or engine alternator, both batteries get charged regardless of switch position?

To start, select #1 to connect starter battery to starter. Once started, leave on #1 since you advise not to change the switch with engine running. In emergency (starter battery low), select both to join all batteries to start. Again, leave on both until you reach you destination since switch must not be moved with engine running?

At anchor, with engine off, select #2 to isolate starter battery and run off house?
In dock with shore power on, select #2 to not drain starter?

There are some posts above that suggest the switch positions 1, 2 and both only dictates which batteries supply the starter and that lights, fridge, etc always pull from the house regardless of switch position, except maybe when “off” is selected. If so, then selecting #2 at anchor is irrelevant.

 Thoughts? 

skennelly

"So whether charging thru on-shore power or engine alternator, both batteries get charged regardless of switch position?"

Yes.  As long as you have an isolator and it's wired correctly.

"To start, select #1 to connect starter battery to starter. Once started, leave on #1 since you advise not to change the switch with engine running. In emergency (starter battery low), select both to join all batteries to start. Again, leave on both until you reach you destination since switch must not be moved with engine running?"

Yes.

"At anchor, with engine off, select #2 to isolate starter battery and run off house?
In dock with shore power on, select #2 to not drain starter?"

Yes, but at dock on shore power it shouldn't matter what position the switch is in...it should charge regardless.

"There are some posts above that suggest the switch positions 1, 2 and both only dictates which batteries supply the starter and that lights, fridge, etc always pull from the house regardless of switch position, except maybe when “off” is selected. If so, then selecting #2 at anchor is irrelevant."

This would depend a lot on how your boat is wired.  On my boat switch position 1 or 2 runs everything and either will crank the engine...others have said the starter won't crank on position 2.

aconthelake

Many thanks for the quick, concise and spot on responses.  They all explain what is going on.  👍

Turns out today that my boat is wired same as yours in that switch #1 or #2 runs everything and either position will crank the engine if they have enough juice.

One final point I need to allow for is that sometimes when I’m away, with the boat on shore power in the slip, someone unplugs the shore power for reasons beyond me.  So by leaving the switch on #2, it means that at least I can start the engine and still go out when I turn up at the dock..

thanks again for your help.  You would think the owner manuals would cover this.

Stay safe.

skennelly

Who is unplugging your shore power randomly???!!!  My slip is in a gated harbor so only people with boats on my dock have access.  Setup a camera and find out who is doing that.

PickleRick

Someone is stealing your power when you're not at your boat.  Im guessing each slip has metered electricity?

Id set up a trial cam and whoever gets caught on camera plugging into your meter either pays the last 6 months of my electric bills or the marina/cops get called. 

If it was a campground I'd guess homeless but being in a marina its likely a slip neighbor who doesn't want to pay for their ac to be ran.