Koehler 5e new unfamiliar problem

craigswardmtb

so about to head out for the weekend and the genny decides to give me hassles. I was down 2 days ago to commission it for the season and it ran well for the most part.  I have consistently had issues where the throttle seems to hunt until it's warmed up and then it's fine. cleaned the carbs last season, air filter etc and it still hunts/revs at startup then evens out.  But otherwise runs fine. So the other day I changed the plugs, fuel filter, anode and fired her up. It ran great under load for 40 minutes or so until I shut it down. Today I decided to run it before going out on anchor and it ran for about 2 minutes then it shut down. I went to inspect and it all seemed in order. Oil was at full line, coolant was good. I then fired up again and it ran for maybe 20 seconds and would shut down.  Seeing I hadn't changed the impeller I decided to eliminate that as the issue. I changed it as it was a year old And in need of a change. When I took it out 5 of the vain ends were gone so I backflushed the exchanger. I put in the new impeller and had great water flow now but it would shut down in 10-20 seconds every time I started it.  Any ideas why this thing isn't running even long enough to get it up to temp. 

Edit: I edited my original post from some mistypes on run times today. 

Black_Diamond

It is shutting down from overheating.  It has zero tolerance for those pieces in there. You need to backflush the heat exchanger to get the pieces out.  Flow water from a hose (I suppose you could try compressed air?) backwards thru the heat exchanger with the anode REMOVED.  The pieces will come out.

Word of caution, make 100% sure you run the water back from the correct tube or you will fill the engine with water!!!!  The tube with the loop/anti-siphon valve is the one, just use the correct side of the loop.

BTW: Yes the impeller is an annual change part IMO.

craigswardmtb

I should have elaborated a bit. I actually did back flush the heat exchanger. I didn't see the pieces but I assume they came out.  I actually think the impeller was toast for some time. I changed it mid last season and flow was noticeably down by the end of last season. Even when it ran well 2 days ago flow was down but it ran fine for 30 minutes with a load on it. It was the early season test after tune up and all was well. Now I suppose the impeller could have went during that initial run but I doubt it. I mistyped in the initial post. Today when I ran it at initial start up it ran for maybe 2 minutes then shut down quickly. It was strange to me because I have experienced overheat issues in the past (coolant air bubble issues), and it shut down but not until after running for sometime and the engine getting up to operating temp and then overheating. Today it ran for two minutes, barely warm, and shut down. I then changed the impeller, backflushed the exchanger from anode hole and hose off the impeller housing, and fired it back up multiple times. Every time it would run for about 10 seconds and then quickly shut down. Again the motor never reached operating temp today. For the short period it ran after the impeller change the water flow was awesome.  As my wife monitored she said she has never seen it spit water like that. So the new impeller helped on that front but it doesn't seem like the issue given the way it's shutting down so quickly. 
Thoughts?

craigswardmtb

I wonder if the dieseling/surging it has been doing at startup for some time is related to a bad antidieseling valve and it finally bit it today. Or maybe an Echoke issue. Again it never really warmed up today and got past it's normal dieseling stage to where the idle evens out and it starts to run well. 

Liberty44140

Have you adjusted the choke or at least lubed the choke linkage? 

craigswardmtb

Yes. It moves freely. I whacked it good with carb cleaner this year too as it always gives me issues with surging at startup. I'm thinking the antidiesel valve gave up and it's cutting fuel off. I'm going to buy one as well as a fuel pump just in case. 

Black_Diamond

Surging is from running lean. Anti-diesel valve is cheap. Clean out the valve seat too. 

I had, amongst other things, a bad electrical connection to the fuel pump. Just flakey enough to work sometimes others for seconds or a few min. Basically would run out of gas. I hard wired the connection. 

rasbury

Why do you have to pull the anode out, isn't that in the coolant side of the system, not the fresh water side? Been a while since I messed with mine until I posted this comment I'm sure!

Liberty44140

I did my anti diesel last summer after my fuel pump went just so I knew it was done. Took BD advice and at the same time eliminated the fuel pump quick power connection and hard wired it and eliminated the in line fuel filter too.  Still think you may need to adjust your choke. 

Black_Diamond

The anode is in the raw water side. By pulling it out and backflushing the impellor pieces will wash out the hole where the anode goes. 

rasbury

I thought it was on the coolant side, my bad..

craigswardmtb

Just FYI the fuel pump Kohler uses is a Facet pump, pn 40178.  Its half the price ($49) of the Kohler version, and no different.

Liberty44140

Agree with Craig, I got one off of a motor sports racing site for half price and it works great!

craigswardmtb

Its pretty ridiculous how much Kohler charges for some of these things.  The Antidiesel solenoid was $105.  So i decided to buy a whole new carb which included the solenoid for $240.  

Black_Diamond

I get parts from partsfortechs.com. I don't remember paying that much for that valve. Could be wrong tho. lol

craigswardmtb

Yep thats where i priced it.  I got all my Kohler parts from them less the fuel pump. I talked to their tech's too.  They were very knowledgeable.

Liberty44140

Same deal here, got the fuel pump for around $50 from a power sports site and then got the anti diesel valve from partsfortechs for around $100. I did both at once because the 5e died at anchor and it sounded fuel related. It was the pump, not the ads, but glad I know that's new. 

craigswardmtb

Well antidiesel solenoid came in and I changed that out (decided not to do the whole carb swap yet as it didn't seem this was the issue, but I have a new one sitting here). I also changed the crumby inline fuel filter. My new fuel pump hasn't come yet so I haven't changed that. I fired her up and same thing. Ran for 15 seconds and then shut down. I pulled the cover off the circuit box and watched the leds. Everything lit up as it should but then at 15 seconds or so led4 lit up and shut it down. My understanding is led 4 only lights up if you hit stop, or a fault is encountered. Those faults can be low oil pressure, high engine temp, loss of coolant, or circuit board. The coolant is fine and it doesn't even warm up so I cannot imagine its those two faults. Oil pressure is unlikely. It's level is full, albeit I didn't change it for the season but wouldn't think that would matter. So perhaps I have a circuit board fault/failure?  I'm going to change the fuel pump but not sure if that will help. Could the fuel pump or lack of fuel cause led4 to light up. Check out the video I took of it running and the leds. After this video I adjusted the choke heater to make it richer while in choke mode and it fixed the surging, but it still shuts down after 15 seconds or so. Any best guesses?

craigswardmtb

Never mind not sure how to load a video on this site. 

So far I have changed plugs, both fuel filters, impeller, flushed exchanger, adjusted echoke heater, cleaned lubed choke linkage(moves freely), replaced input and voltage fuses, new Antidiesel solenoid. It ran fine for 30 minutes the first time this season and has exhibited this issue ever since. 

reneechris14

I'm listening very close so you guys can learn me on this gen set.so far I think my choke stays closed.15 seconds and then shutting sounds like fuel,can you put a spark plug light on a plug to see if it's electronic.

Liberty44140

One note I'll toss out is that when I changed my fuel pump I had a heck of a time getting it primed and started. I assumed that it would prime it self with the electric pump and it wouldn't. I had to bleed it from the pump to the bowl. Then it fired right up and worked great all summer. 

craigswardmtb

Looking forward to that fun @Liberty44140. As long as it actually runs after and it will all be worth it. 
Has anyone had issues with sensors going bad and throwing a false led4 (shutdown). Maybe @Black_Diamond

craigswardmtb

https://youtu.be/XvmnNS6iS9A

craigswardmtb

Lmk if the link to the video works. 

craigswardmtb

Parts and service manual in case anyone needs it.

rasbury

Following this closely...

Black_Diamond

The exhaust and coolant sensors can go bad (my exhaust one did early on) too.  Did your coolant overflow bottle go empty by chance?  If it did, it almost certainly sucked in air.  An air bubble in the anti-freeze side of the coolant system will trigger an over temp shut down in a very short time frame too. 

craigswardmtb

I have new high temp cutoff, temp, and oil pressure sensors in route.  I had the coolant overflow issue last season and had to go through bleeding the system.  That isn't what is going on this time as it cannot even get up to temp.  It runs for 10 seconds and the K4 shutoff relay opens (LED4).  If its not the fuel pump which is pumping to a degree, than i'm thinking sensors or something is up with the main control board.

Dream_Inn

Maybe sand in the water pressure sensor?  I've had that one happen with similar symptoms as you.  You can jumper the sensor to try it.

craigswardmtb

Where's the water pressure sensor?  I haven't read about that one. 

Dream_Inn

It is P/N GM30263 (pressure switch)     http://www.partsfortechs.com/asapcart/gm30263-switch-pressure-assembly-kohler-p-1315.html

I've seen them clog pretty easy.  You can bypass it to check (I can't remember if short or open bypasses it)