Dipping Bravo 3 to cool

Liberty44140

I dont disagree, I've talked to a hand full of cruising boat owners like ours at our marina who have Bravo 3's and they have all run 4 - 6 hours with no showers and no issues. Like LR says, these are not go fast, they are 31 - 34 foot boats who run 3600 - 3800 RPM at 26 - 30 MPH, like us....

Michael T

@LaRea. I respectfully disagree - IMO -  if you are getting a chalky white residue on your drive tower top cap it IS running waaay too hot. That has only happened to me when running engines and drives fast and hard. In those situations I, at times, changed my oil after every run and drive lube a number of times per summer.

IMO - no matter what  - that white chalky residue should not be there. It should not happen to any drive. 

I never saw even the first signs of it on the drives of either the twin 350 Mags on my 2013 EC 310 or drives on the twin 502 Mags with Catalytic converters of my EC 360. If I had it would have been an automatic drive lube change and installation of drive showers.

There may still be some discussion of the efficacy of drive showers in the go fast magazines although that discussion dropped off a few years back when everyone agreed that drive showers were awesome.

I posted a long time ago that we ran temperature gauges on the drive lube of Bravo 1's with and without drive showers and the temperature difference with drive showers was ASTOUNDING!. 

I DO agree that most cruisers should not need drive showers. That said, If you have a cruiser that is borderline under powered and the engines take "forever" to get the hull on plane I would consider drive showers because IMO the drives are being loaded and forced to work too hard for too long......and if there is that white chalky residue baked onto the drive top cap.....and if you have any concern put the friggin' things on and they'll be cheap insurance!

LaRea

MT, does that mean that white residue should only be expected when drives are being pushed far outside their intended operating envelope?  

I've found only anecdotal evidence that residue is correlated with damage-producing levels of heat.  I'd love to see an independent third-party test with engineering-grade temperature measurements.  But all I can find is "testimonials" published by vendors who want to sell drive showers.  I give zero damns about that type of info.  

Do you recall any details about your data from outdrive temp gauges?  I'm guessing it was a go-fast, because cruisers don't install temp sensors.  Type of boat, conditions?  I consider you to be a reliable source.  Even a vague memory from you would carry more weight than vendor testimonials.

bry1429

I have spoken to Mercruiser and they told me it's a fact that the catalyst engines produce a MUCH hotter exhaust. Which  produces  severe heat on the lower unit, so much they have a patented procedure for the painting process for heat protection and corrosion on the B3 X drive's I have. The discoloration I have on the lower units is from heat. The discoloration has been there for some time, the drive showers is a piece of mind. The lake temps also play a part in the cooling of the lower unit. Last year the waters hit nearly 80* where I boat. Last year i did not have steam coming from my lower units underway- this year with the showers running on the units there is a constant steam condesation from cooling coming from the back end while underway from the drive shower water dousing the drives. I had a 7.4L B2 on my last boat,  it never discolored after 23 yrs of use. So, imo you guys without a catalyst engine need not worry unless you drive your RINKERS like a demented Evil Kenevil  or, if you have a HIGH PERFORMANCE go fast boat.

Liberty44140

So how do I know if my merc 350 mag mpi horizons are catalyst?

Dream_Inn

Liberty44140 said:

So how do I know if my merc 350 mag mpi horizons are catalyst?

2006, you do not have them.

Michael T

It took me a LOT of conversations with Merc techs to get an answer regarding the gray areas that look painted on the B lll X drives.  (In fact, they are "painted" - at the factory .....in a proprietary process)

I'm pretty sure most of you guys would agree that I have an ocd gene. You can imagine this -  I had just purchased a new Rinker EC 360 with 8.2 Mags and B lll X drives and I spotted defined gray color "paint"  areas on both of the B lll drives. I went WTF!!!!!!!! I can post pictures of what I saw - before the boat ever hit the water - when I get home from Aruba.

The gray color you see below the hot exhaust port on the drives - one side of each drive more distinct/defined than the other - is normal. It is a special coating applied to the drives to prevent the heat from pitting the drive in conjunction with either salt, brackish of fresh water.

To confirm the Merc tech's comments I looked at brand new (never in the water) Bllls. One at Lens Cove on a new 290 Rinker with a 502 mag B lll and two other brands of boat (Four Winns and a Formula) at another dealer.

There is no way I would have ever quit until I was satisfied that all was well. I had spent far too much money to accept a pat answer. I was 100% satisfied that Merc's coatings on their drives were well thought out and appropriate.

I am not disagreeing at all that the heat from the catalytic converter engines is  hotter on the drives - at the - stabilization plate (anti-cavitation plate) area and maybe somewhat internally (although I have no proof of that) - because I'm sure bit is - but I am 100% sure that the heat did not cause the discoloration of the paint on B lll X or XR  drives that was factory O.E.M.

Bry, I think what you see as "steam" is a fine mist coming off your drives from the spray at speed. I have seen that many, many times from my "showered" drives in the past. There is no way that "steam\" should be coming off your drive top when it is being showered. IMO that would be so hot that the drive tops would have been discolored by my usage. I ran that boat at 3400 RPM for hours and there was never a hint of discoloration o the top caps. Just my opinion.

Bottom line for me would be that unless a cruiser is under powered and its drives are forced to work too hard for too long you should not need drive showers but - unless a drive shower is TOO good and cools the lube too low (more about that in my reply to @LaRea) - then no harm done and maybe even cheap insurance by installing them.

Michael T

@La Rea, (and colleagues) respectfully, these are my opinions:

@La Rea - re your first question my answer is - yes. I do not want to suggest that greenish slime etc. that we wold call normal river/ocean slime be confused with the white chalk substance found on the top caps of some drives. To be correct this substance (that can be removed by products such as CLR or in some cases with 5% vinegar) is actually mineral deposits left behind as water spray or water splashed on the drive top after a long run is "cooked" on top of a too hot drive top cap. This should not be found on any cruiser operated normally. This can only occur at very hot temperatures. I have never seen this on any  drive with a catalytic converter on a cruiser. Certainly not on the twin 350 Mags or 502 Mags of my cruisers.

As @LaRea has correctly surmised ALL of the chalk colored (mineral) deposits have been on high performance applications. I have been personally involved in the installation of at least 20 drive showers over the years. For my Bravo l driven by a 390 HP 383 stroker I chose a single arm fully top drilled shower. (more about why later). 

I lived on the water for over 25 years (I still do). In my younger years we all tried everything we could think of for more HP and MPH. Between us we tried almost every kind of drive shower available: solid single arms fully or top drilled, solid twin arms fully or top drilled, Halo arms, solid arms and SS braided arms with rain shower tops, tops that had downward wings to deflect more spray, scoop ends, radiused ends, 45 degree ends, different diameters of tubing or SS braid....you get it :-).....everything we could because it was just FUN! :-)

We tried it on Alphas, Bravos, BlackHawks, one set of Arneson surface drives, even some OMC and Volvo products.

Lube was sent for testing - some to my uncle who was V.P. of a big Canadian oil company and a chemical engineer who ran temperature, sheer, heat and contaminant tests on what I sent him. 

One of the riggers set up a Bravo with a port, to do temperature tests on lube with different drive showers. Did they work - OH YEAH - did they ever.

We tried a bunch by drilling two holes into the cavitation plate of a Bravo1 then bolting different aluminum plates to it so that we could affix a number of different showers to the plate without drilling different hole patterns into the drive's anti-cav plate.

I can't reliably remember numbers but....you'll LOVE this. With several showers the temperature of the lube was reduced to the point that we worried it was not HOT enough to safely prevent contaminate build-up.

It is my opinion that you should not need a drive shower for your cruiser but if you think you have heating questions with your drive(s) you can install most showers, easily with normal tools, within a few hours for little money when you consider the insurance value.

Just be VERY careful not to strip the threads of the top cap when you connect the shower cap or fittings to support solid arms and ALWAYS follow the torque value and pattern specified for your drive.

Regards to all. MT

davidbrooks

Been watching this discussion with interest.  As i just had one drive rebuilt and another planned for this winter.  When i was reinstalling the drives i filled them with
Quicksilver 58Q01 80W-90 Premium Gear Lube.  The mechanic told me he didn't recommend it.  Told me that it had a tendency to "boil" in the drives.  He only recommended Volvo Penta Gear Oil Synthetic 75W 90.  I wasn't about to dump it out at the time but will have to this winter.  What do you all think about synthetic vs non?  Also some gear oil is 75-90 and some straight 90.  

 

Michael T

I like synthetic.

Stodge

Just my $0.02.  We went 100 miles at a stretch and didn't "dip" or otherwise do anything to cool the outdrives.  The drives are in the water for the most part.  I'd think that between the water being sucked up from the lake and circulated through the drive, and the conductive property of the metal housing that they'd stay somewhat cool.  Now if I was turning 5000 RPM I might feel different.  

I'll find out when I get outdrive service this winter if that had any effect.  

Michael T

@Stodge and if you look at the top caps of recent B iii drives, particularly the X and XR drives they have finned heat sinks on the top cap that really transfer heat away.

Liberty44140

Some interesting takeaways in this discussion. First on the synthetic lube. Would still love some feedback on which lube to use that can take the higher heat, I plan to use the "premium" quicksilver drive lube this spring as opposed to the lower cost quicksilver drive lube. Secondly on the catalyst part of the discussion. From what I see the newer catalyst engines put out more heat and thus the new X drives have heat sync's like the back of an industrial light to help dissipate heat. That tells me that while this isnt a non-issue, it really does pertain more to the "go fast" guys and cruisers with newer, catalyst engines. Perhaps us slow poke's with older engines really are less of a concern? 

bry1429

@Liberty44140  well said. The head Mercruiser mechanic where I store my boat seen the showers I installed and stated "thats a heavy boat with B3's and cats, the lower units will sure stay cooler with those showers". That statement was priceless to me, very few of us here are lower unit specialist and for a Merc certified specialist to say that was worth every penny I paid for the showers. (It was approx $370 for 2)

Michael T

Nice install Bryan.

Of course I have had Mercruiser "specialists" disagree over the years regarding procedures, maintenance and options installations. I do not make decisions based on their opinion alone. I also rely on the opinions of experience, my own, and friends who have performed mods many times over the years then lived with them in real world applications. Like we do on this forum.

For example: regarding discussions with Mercruiser "specialists" I had several- with the "top gun" Mercruiser specialists, the ones at the technicians' only hot line -  regarding my EC 360. I can tell you we had some world class disagreements regarding some fault codes and the suggested corrections.

I'll just mention one (maybe I have in the past). With an open line to the Mercruiser technicians' only hot line while, we were working - we were told to replace various engine components (water pump etc.) to bring the water pressure of the Port engine into specification. I was sure it was a sender. We were then told that engine was actually in spec and it was the other engine that was out of spec. 

At that point I said for @#$%^ sake WHAT is the specified water pressure supposed to be - what are your performance specs for those engines. This was after numerous calls to the best of the best at Merc.

Finally, not wanting any more of my  new engines taken apart, I hung-up the cell phone and we started swapping sensors. One new sensor was bad which probably threw-off the Merc. hot line tech. But we tried a couple more and sure enough it was a sensor problem.

*****BTW..... ALL of the parts (sensors, new sea water pump, clamps etc.) and labor ,an hour's drive each way for the tech PLUS a day and a half  on-site at the marina labor),was on WARRANTY. I was scared sh*tless to think how much that would have cost me if I was paying for it!

To be fair to the Merc techs, those guys have been a huge help to me and my friends over the years and they do try their hardest but sometimes the experience of the old farts trumps a computer generated trouble shooting precedence flow chart.

Bryan - regarding your drive showers. Unless you are driving the boat way differently than I did (which I doubt) , IMO you did not need drive showers. 

Will they hurt. I do not believe so, particularly because they are not top cap showers - like we used - the type you have installed lower the temp faaar less than the type we used because they are classified (by us at least) as body showers - which in your case imo is good. As, imo, you don't want to lower the temp of your drives too much.

Your tech should also have realized that the Rinker EC 360 and its predecessor the 342 and 350 were often shipped with far less robust drives than the new B lll X drive and I certainly do not know anyone who had a 342 or a 350 whose B lll drive (even the older ones) failed due to overheating in standard applications. 

IF you really had a heating problem, the type of drive shower I would have recommended would have been a braided SS hose leading to a solid top plate witandh downward wings to bathe the cooling fins of the drives top cap heat sink with water.

BTW.....just remembered - always measure the clearance you have between your swim platform and where top of the drive shower will be.

*****If you look @bry1429's installation I would qualify that as a zero clearance alternative that should work for any application.

Also, I have had a number of friends who have made their own drive showers (inexpensively)  or who have had drive showers made custom for about the same price as manufactured.