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Oil Pressure/Engine temp 2002 342 fiesta Vee

Autodog61Autodog61 Pacific NorthwestPosts: 59Member ✭✭

Ok, so I bought the boat last August  Took out 2 times last year for short runs and using this summer for learing the ropes before I go out in Puget Sound for the 400 mile trip back and forth to Desolation Sound.  today on the short outing I idled to up to 1,500 RPM for about 40 minutes.  Temp on both engines was below 180 - I would wager maybe 170.  After 40 minutes jumped on plane to 3,200 RPM ran for about 10 minutes.  Notice temperature on Port engine jumped above 180 to near 200 while starboard was right above 185.  Came back off plane back to 1,000 RPM.  Port engine pressure dropped to about 20 PSI while starboard remained at 40 PSI.  When I got to slip about 15 minutes later temp on both dropped back to around the 180 mark.  weird thing is port pressure stayed at 20 psi on idle while the starboard dropped off 40 down to around 20 on;y after that last idle period. 

Checked both Oil levels before I started and after finished with them both in normal range.  no weird milkiness in port oil.

Risers were cool to touch back at dock 

Port engine coolant had spit a bit (less tha a cup or so) of coolant into expansion tank. 

No leaking fluid under Port engine

Both oil filters were VERY HOT confirming the temp gauges both registering just below 180 at the slip.  

I tend to more or less trust the crappy factory gauges and understand they can be off some but the past few times I have been out they would register around 40 psi and never saw temp get over the 185 mark on plane or on idle.  The fuel gauge on starboard quit working begining this year (sheet) and this time out the speedo quick working but for just a while (assuming it is a pitot type and marina milfoil plugged temporarily.   

Engines are the MX 6.2L Horizons.

      

I am going to bring infared temp gun next time out to eval various locations on the block. 

In my go fast (Pachanga 270), my old twin 350 magnums were spot on at 165 degrees never deviated a bit for like 17 years.  Wasn't until I repowered with Mercury Marine 357 4V alphas (and Sea Ray added through hull water pickups for the blocks) that temperature on those routinely is at 180 regardless of idle or 4,500 RPM but with the weirdness being as soon as you come off plane temp jumps to 200 but dropped as fast back to 180.

In cars, small block mouse temp is almost a universal 170 while the big block rat hovers around 185.     

For those of us that don't know, what are typical pressure and temp ranges for these engines in our boats? 


BTW- Obviously freshwater cooling and I do have Bravo 3 with outdrive showers too.   

Holy Smokes, don't forget the bilge plug!
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Answers

  • Autodog61Autodog61 Pacific NorthwestPosts: 59Member ✭✭

    Oh yea, engines have just under 300 hrs each


    Holy Smokes, don't forget the bilge plug!
  • reneechris14reneechris14 Pawcatuck river CTPosts: 1,763Member ✭✭✭✭
    Just my 2 cents but I say raw water impeller, motor ran hot oil got hotter so psi at 20 is hot oil. Your hand held lazer should confirm. Diginostic computer could confirm water psi of raw water pump.
    2005 Rinker FV342  Pawcatuck river,Ct
  • craigswardmtbcraigswardmtb Mystic, CTPosts: 993Member ✭✭✭
    I agree with Chris.  Start simple with an impeller if it hasn't been done recently.  Next culprit could be that crumby water pickup tube in the drive.  They are known to wear out and start to collapse or get clogged up with growth.  

    Ever since i got my vesselview mobile going its nice to see actual temps and not rely on those crumby Faria gauges.  However i have noticed at cruise my starboard 496 runs at 170, where my port is at 167/168.  Seeing VV is somewhat new i'm not sure if this temp variance is new or if its always been like that.  Do you guys run a couple degrees different on each engine?  At idle the temps are the same.  I have two seasons on the impellers and have been meaning to change them anyway.  I'll likely do it before our big trip in a couple weeks just for peace of mind.
  • Autodog61Autodog61 Pacific NorthwestPosts: 59Member ✭✭

    Yea, I suppose for the temps it could be related to impellers.  Good news there is the are easily accessed on the lower unit of the Bravo3 drive.  What about oil pressure.  do your 496's drop to 20 PSI at idle or do they stay at 40 and above?  I know they are crappy gauges but also that anything above 10-15PSI at idle isn't catastrophic at with the faria's registering just below 20 psi that it could be anything from 15 to 30.  Just wondering what others see. 

    Holy Smokes, don't forget the bilge plug!
  • Liberty44140Liberty44140 Bay Village & Marblehead, OH.Posts: 2,018Member ✭✭✭✭
    20 at hot idle is fine and yes those gauges stink so if it really concerns you have it checked at the sender. If throughout the summer your  hot idle pressure drops over time you should be concerned. Your impellers are on the engine in the water pump, not in the outdrive. Agree with the posts here that your first step should be changing impellers. Also are you using the right oil and filter? Should be using the 25w40 quicksilver oil and the quicksilver filter. That can have an effect on oil pressure. 
    Wine-N-Down -- 2006 342 Express Cruiser

  • Autodog61Autodog61 Pacific NorthwestPosts: 59Member ✭✭

    One question about impeller location: 

    during inspection last year, there were only two, no stet that, it was three through hull water pick ups.  One was for head pump, one for Genset, and one for A/C.  There were no others.  Which typically would me the water pickup for engine cooling (exhaust risers and heat exchanger with freshwater cooling) is from the outdrives not from other through-hull ports that I apparently don't have. 

    But, also, I can tell you that there are also what appears to be impeller housings on the front, bottom, right of each engine (I know because that's where one of the two ports are located for draining water for winter freeze protection with that blue pump- Think its on that impeller housing - PITA to get too-Next winter I'll higher a hobbit to do it).  So did I miss something during the inspection?

    Holy Smokes, don't forget the bilge plug!
  • craigswardmtbcraigswardmtb Mystic, CTPosts: 993Member ✭✭✭

    The only impellers are on the water pumps in your engine room.  Kind of a PIA the first change but not so bad at subsequent changes.

    As for my pressure i'm always at 40psi and above.  Not sure if 20 is normal for your engines.  I would be very suspicious if one engine was 20 psi less than the other.  However you basically overheated so I guess that could have dropped it a bit.  My bet is that your gauge is garbage, and its fine.

  • Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Holland, MichiganPosts: 4,422Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    B-III water pump is on the engine, not the outdrive. 

    2003 342FV "Black Diamond", 350 MAG MPI, 20P 4x4 Props, PC BYC, Holland, MI
  • Autodog61Autodog61 Pacific NorthwestPosts: 59Member ✭✭
    Ok, I get the impeller being on the starboard, low, front on both engines.  BUt, then where are the pickups?  Through the Bravo3 drive lower unit just with no impeller?  Apparently Bravo's are different than alphas where the alpha has an impeller in each lower unit.  What cools the bravo3 then?  I suppose that's one of the reasons folks point out Bravo's run hot.  Well, I will give feedback again after I go out this weekend with the infrared temp gun and check a bunch of points on the blocks.   
    Holy Smokes, don't forget the bilge plug!
  • Liberty44140Liberty44140 Bay Village & Marblehead, OH.Posts: 2,018Member ✭✭✭✭
    You definitely have water pickup coming in through the bravo 3. Many 342s, like mine, have both thru hull water intakes and water coming in from the bravo 3, if you did have both it would be pretty obvious so it's probably just coming in through the drive. 
    Wine-N-Down -- 2006 342 Express Cruiser

  • Autodog61Autodog61 Pacific NorthwestPosts: 59Member ✭✭
    edited July 2017

    Ok, I did some temp testing.  Following up with everyone as an FYI.  I took boat out for a short 20minute run at 3,500 RPM.  Checked various points but primarily where water exits intake to heat exchanger and oil filters.  What I found was:

    At initial warm up, intake temp stabilized around 150 degrees with dash gauge reading below 180 (i'll call it 170).  This is port intake reading 112 after say 5 minute idle at slip.  At this point both dashes are reading 40 psi at idle.

     

    After I ran up to 3500 RPM for 20 minutes, I found port intake was at 158 degrees, gauge was reading above 180 but less than 220 degrees.  But oil filters were 200 and 206 degrees with oil pressure on dash gauges both reading 40 psi .  

      

    After 10 minute idle back, intake back to 158 degrees, dash gauges back below 180 degrees but notice port dash oil pressure below 20 psi and Starboard gauge reading at 20. 

      


    Both impellers were changed out 2 years ago and boat has maybe 10 hours in the 2 years.  At this point my only concern is the oil filter temps at 200 and 206 degrees after 20 minutes at 3,500 RPM.  Is this normal? I suspect not.  So, next step is to track down a real-time OBDII reader that I can plug into wiring harness and get direct readings.  I saw other threads recommending a "gateway" type system.  But, wouldn't there be a simple OBDII reader that Mercury Marine would have to check this kind of stuff.

    Holy Smokes, don't forget the bilge plug!
  • Handymans342Handymans342 Posts: 7,188Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would say its normal as the engine and oil is hotter than the water side
  • Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Holland, MichiganPosts: 4,422Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    Your oil temp will be higher than the water temp. Normal. 

    The Mercury VesselView Mobile if your engines are SmartCraft enabled is the way to go.

    2003 342FV "Black Diamond", 350 MAG MPI, 20P 4x4 Props, PC BYC, Holland, MI
  • Autodog61Autodog61 Pacific NorthwestPosts: 59Member ✭✭

    Great, thanks.  I'll go look them up. 


    Holy Smokes, don't forget the bilge plug!
  • reneechris14reneechris14 Pawcatuck river CTPosts: 1,763Member ✭✭✭✭
    X2 on the Vessel View Moble or rinda scan tool. I don't think that oil temp is a problem. Maybe crappie gauges :p :p
    2005 Rinker FV342  Pawcatuck river,Ct
  • Autodog61Autodog61 Pacific NorthwestPosts: 59Member ✭✭
    Well, I had researched this a bit before and I know I don't have Bluetooth on my 2002 ECMs.  So, I just purchased a Rinda Techmate Pro Scan tool .  I will get it next week and provide feedback on how it works.  Reading the manual for it right now.  If it works they way the bill it, should be a great tool to have.  Then just figure how to get it to read to a remote display/laptop through their 94006 cable. 
    Holy Smokes, don't forget the bilge plug!
  • reneechris14reneechris14 Pawcatuck river CTPosts: 1,763Member ✭✭✭✭
    If you have Smart craft the mobile app is the way to go. I have the Rinda scan tool and it does give you all the info. 2002 is when they started putting smart craft in. It will be a logo on your air cleaner.
    2005 Rinker FV342  Pawcatuck river,Ct
  • Autodog61Autodog61 Pacific NorthwestPosts: 59Member ✭✭

    I have a photo of the air cleaner above.  Doesn't look like it has that logo does it?  Not sure about the diamond logo.  Let me know as I am not familiar with what logo looks like. 

    Holy Smokes, don't forget the bilge plug!
  • Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Holland, MichiganPosts: 4,422Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes. SmartCraft enabled. 

    2003 342FV "Black Diamond", 350 MAG MPI, 20P 4x4 Props, PC BYC, Holland, MI
  • Autodog61Autodog61 Pacific NorthwestPosts: 59Member ✭✭

    While I wait for the Rinda Techmate to arrive (at 5 bills), I decided to run down the Vesselview mobile (mad I didn't pay attention later last year).  There is a great thread from you all that covers a lot of the details from August '16 during Beta testing.  I am jealous.  For others see thread link below for vesselview mobile and you'll get all kinds of great information on that 16 page thread.  Very cool.  On engine compatibility, see the chart on the Mercury website

    https://mercury.vesselviewmobile.com/#/faq

    And you'll find a compatibility chart.  In my case with a 2002 342, serial numbers on my 6.2L MX's are M338972 and 77 so they are compatible.  After reviewing the thread I am left with the follow quandaries -Based on not having DTS installed (to be confirmed later - Assumed for now), the cost of additional cables for dual engine (what, like $300?) on top the $275 for the blue tooth, its about the same as the Rinda Techmate.  Obviously, the beta testing as detailed in the other thread:

    https://rinkerboats.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/80714#Comment_80714

    Indicated minor? issues with connectivity.  So, for those that have had it installed now for the past, what, 10 months, are the issues resolved with software updates and is there more features added such as oil temp along with what I didn't see in the thread, oil pressure, that was suppose to be a standard feature?.  I may be forking over another 5 bills for Vesselview but the other thread terminated in September 16 without substantial feedback of long term system viability and I would be curious for that feedback either here or in that thread. 

    Holy Smokes, don't forget the bilge plug!
  • Autodog61Autodog61 Pacific NorthwestPosts: 59Member ✭✭
    Ok guys, looking for more input.  So, Per input above, I had the marine tech in March switch out OEM impeller housings and impellers for Hardin Marine Performance Stainless steel housing/impellers (yes, they are correct part # for 6.2L SBC).  Few weeks back went out for first real run.  Two things happened; 1) beeping alarm went off because starboard drive was loosing drive oil and at the same time, I noticed 2) Port engine temp gauge jumped up to 220 degrees (Starboard jumped to 200 but settled to 180 during the 3500 RPM run).  I stopped at that point, filled oil reservoir to get back to marina and checked with IR gun, oil filter housings again.  this time Port oil filter with IR was reading 217 degrees.  As I idled back to marina at 1,100 RPM the temp registered (on port dash) dropped back below 180.  The boat is on a sling at the marina and the drive leak on the starboard is a straight forward fix will be done today.  My bigger concern is the high temp.  They are still evaluating But........I am told the dash gauge measures water temp which makes sense, just like auto.  That being said then, since I changed the impellers with even better than OEM Hardin Marine units, what else can cause water temps to rise like that?  again, just 15 minutes at 3,500 RPM.  I assume high water temp translates to hotter block and thus hotter oil temp.  But, 217 for oil filter housing, even I know that is too high.   I did check coolant levels and they are both filled properly.  I have checked with my Rinda Techmate and at Idle, oil temp registers normal.  I didn't check when I had the high temp noted above, kinda wish I would have to determine what Rinda Oil temp would have said.  regardless, I know its hotter than should be at.  Only thing I can think of is restriction in the Bravo 3 pickup to water pump?  Any other thoughts? 
    Holy Smokes, don't forget the bilge plug!
  • GMSLITHOGMSLITHO Greenwood Lake NY Posts: 484Member ✭✭✭
    Hose through the transom good ?
  • Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Holland, MichiganPosts: 4,422Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    +++ on the transom hose.  Been there. 

    2003 342FV "Black Diamond", 350 MAG MPI, 20P 4x4 Props, PC BYC, Holland, MI
  • raybo3raybo3 Revere MAPosts: 3,950Moderator mod
    First thing I would check is the heat exchanger. Take off the end caps and clean it out. It only takes a very little about of grass or debris to cause the temp to rise. If that is clean then it could be the hose that runs through the transom. Good luck and keep us posted. BTW taking the end caps off is very easy and should only take you about 10 min for each engine......
    2002 342 Fiesta Vee PC Point Of Pines YC Revere MA. popyc.org
  • Autodog61Autodog61 Pacific NorthwestPosts: 59Member ✭✭
    Ok guys.  Will keep you posted.  We are waiting for gear oil tube parts for the starboard engine to arrive.  Apparently where that gear oil hose goes through the transom/gimble into the outdrive, that is leaking.  And bad.  there's a puddle of gear oil on the cement under that drive right now.  While we wait, its out of the water.  I will have the Tech do an inspection of the Transom hose both port and starboard.  Just doesn't make sense that first run after getting Hardin Marine stainless impeller/housings its overheating and then, only on the port side.  Heat exchanger was one I thought of.  Will check that too.  More on this later in the week. 
    Holy Smokes, don't forget the bilge plug!
  • icoulthaicoultha Niskayuna NYPosts: 839Member ✭✭✭
    Yes. SmartCraft enabled. 
    How does one tell if enabled?

    Regards,

    Ian

    The Third “B”

    Rear Commodore, Crescent Boat Club

  • Autodog61Autodog61 Pacific NorthwestPosts: 59Member ✭✭

    Icoultha - smart craft sign is on the carb hat.  if 2002 or newer and carb hat looks like this you've got Smart craft.

        

    Ok, final update on the overheat issue (now onto the leak port side below/near genset).  The port engine was overheating because.......wait for it......the drive was improperly re-installed last time when the tech (or better said a tech) fixed the drive oil leak on the port side.  This fix was last September.  Didn't really take it out at that time for any kind of a high RPM long run.  Wasn't til after I got both impellers changed out that I ran like I stole it and it overheated.  Was either a pinched coolant hose or a bad gasket seal.  This is the problem that comes up if you don't sit on top of the mechanic doing the repair and/or taking it out immediately to check that the repairs were done properly (ie no pinched transom coolant hose/bad gasket install).  Ughhh.....Fixed now.  No one could have ever found it without disassembling the port drive/bell housing to look behind there.  Why would you right? 


    Boat runs at 165 degrees at 4800 RPM now!.  BUT, next year I will change the Bravo III's out and put through hull pickups and blind off the transom coolant hose.  I cant believe a 5/8 inch outer and a 1.25 inch inner coolant hose supply raw water to the impellers.     I haven't taken the boat out yet and will respond with one final note about where the oil temperatures register after 15 minutes of 4,000 RPM run.  Now its all in the books I would say the oil filter housings/oil should be around 180 degrees but, I will measure with IR and let you all know. 


    Now anyone ever have a leak on port side (NOT FROM THE TRANSOM ASSEMBLY) that seems to appear when coming off plane?  Only thing I can think of is the swim platform flooding and in coming in by the hatch hinge, or worse, through bolts for the swim steps.  Geez man......almost more than I can take......

    Holy Smokes, don't forget the bilge plug!
  • Liberty44140Liberty44140 Bay Village & Marblehead, OH.Posts: 2,018Member ✭✭✭✭
    You need the bravo 3 to still pull in water or it will overheat. Just put in a y. I have both thru hull pickup and bravo 3 water intake, they y together and then go through a strainer and in to the water pump. 
    Wine-N-Down -- 2006 342 Express Cruiser

  • AlswaggAlswagg Posts: 2,354Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hmmm do you are going to eliminate the drive coolant huh.  Ok, go ahead try it.  Let’s see how long it take the outdrive to overheat.      If you want to add a dual water pick up, that is fine, but don’t eliminate all coolant from the drive.  That spells disaster or $5,890.00.  
  • GMSLITHOGMSLITHO Greenwood Lake NY Posts: 484Member ✭✭✭
    I was thinking of adding a through hull pick up last year but since I replaced the water hose on the transom the boat runs at 160 all day ,so I won’t fix what’s not broken 
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