342 w/350 MAG Hill Marine prop update

Wildboating

Black_Diamond said:

Yes, I played with the drive trim numerous times since the prop switch.  Anything more than a fraction and I drop speed/cavitate.  There is SO much more aft lift with these props, I'm running much 'flatter' (very little bow lift).  

I used to trim about 1/2 way to the first trim mark on the gauge with Merc props. 

I was about half way up to the first hash mark as well.  With my Hill 22p 4x4 i can barley trim at all, if at all.

I still find I need a lot of adjustments on trim tabs

BellevilleMXZ

Might try some of these next year....works good as is, but hey I like improvements !

davidbrooks

@Wildboating They are 2003 350 MPI's so 300 hp each.  I have the 22p Hill 4x4 and i have seen the same results. I am going to add that i was just under my boat last weekend and there wasn't a single barnacle to be found.  New bottom paint is great.  Much less trim needed.  Just little bumps.  I am now able to hit 4800 at WOT and 39-40mph on GPS.  That is with 2-4 people, full water and 1/2 tank of gas.  The other item that is very noticeable is that i have a lot more control docking.  Little bumps to the throttle turn her or keep her steady.  

Liberty44140

We really struggle with the Lake Erie chop. Our boat will be pounding while a V drive boat just coasts along smoothly. Anyone with hill feel like their boats are handling pounding waves better?

Dream_Inn

Liberty44140 said:

We really struggle with the Lake Erie chop. Our boat will be pounding while a V drive boat just coasts along smoothly. Anyone with hill feel like their boats are handling pounding waves better?

We did a long trip this past August thru varying conditions such as the Chesapeake Bay, Delaware Bay and the Atlantic Ocean.  I will say, I was able to stay on plane thru all of those conditions in many different speeds.  It was very nice in the ocean to have that quick acceleration to either stay on top of a wave or cut thru and get back on another one.  I've also noticed going into the waves has been handling better, I believe because my bow is down and cutting better.

vyborny1

For reference, 
I have a 2002 342 with 6.2l with BIII 24 pitch(3 blades) 

We had an absolutely perfect Saturday on Lake Erie, so we decided to go over to Vermilion, Ohio. I thougt is would be a perfect time to play around with different speeds. I had 4 adults & 2 kids. 1/2 tanks of gas & 1/2 fresh water, empty waist water.
Tachs are anolog & speed was gps. no tabs were used 

3000rpm= 19-21mph, really struggled to stay on plane, im sure if I would have played with the tabs, she wouldn't have fought as much.

3200rpm= 23-25mph, I would say that this about the slowest it would stay on plane & not be fighting it. 

3400rpm= 28-30mph, this is the sweet spot. This is where the engines are the happiest. She was running very level, smoothest ride. 

3800rpm= 33-35mph, still a smooth ride, but i feel that at this point and above, the engines start to get thristy.

4500rpm= 39-40mph, again, decibels are starting to get up there, boucing around a little.

5100(Redline)= 44.5mph, engines screaming, only stayed here a few seconds, I can't even imagine how much fuel is flowing, but it was fun. 

Hope that helps 

randy56

44.5 mph lot's of speed for 342, on the map is that really a dumping ground? What do they dump?

Black_Diamond

Typically dredgings. 

Liberty44140

Yep - on Lake Erie the Army Corps of Engineers dredge the mud out of the rivers to maintain depth and those are the areas where dumping the mud is allowed. He has 6.2's so 44mph is not a surprise. 

J3ff

Dream_Inn said:

Liberty44140 said:

We really struggle with the Lake Erie chop. Our boat will be pounding while a V drive boat just coasts along smoothly. Anyone with hill feel like their boats are handling pounding waves better?

We did a long trip this past August thru varying conditions such as the Chesapeake Bay, Delaware Bay and the Atlantic Ocean.  I will say, I was able to stay on plane thru all of those conditions in many different speeds.  It was very nice in the ocean to have that quick acceleration to either stay on top of a wave or cut thru and get back on another one.  I've also noticed going into the waves has been handling better, I believe because my bow is down and cutting better.

I did 8 hours one way with regular props and 8 hours the other way with the 22p 4 x4 on my 270.. on the way to the location there was a part of the trip that was miserable, mainly because I couldn't stay on plane at a slow speed, I had to be doing 25 or so to stay on plane. The result was pounding to the point of things getting slightly damaged... the choice was slow down to 9 or 10mph and take hours to get there or just power through it.  I picked power through it and I never want to have to do that again (Fog/rain was rolling in behind me, waves were forcing me off the course I wanted, etc).. 

On the way back I hit some big waves again, of course not in the direction I wanted to go...the difference was I could now stay on plane at 17 to 19 mph which for some reason made it just smooth enough going over the waves that there wasn't any pounding or as Dream just said maybe it just plows through them better now that the rear of the boat is so much higher.

I honestly never use trim anymore - it used to make a big difference, now it only gets used when close to the beach!

davidbrooks

Took this yesterday.  2003 342 with 350 mpi's, Bravo 3 @1:2.2 and Hill 4x4 22P.  Just at or slightly over 40 mph and 48-4900 rpm.   2 Two people on board, 1/2 tank of gas and a beautiful calm day.  I am happy with that.

 

reneechris14

@davidbrooks That really good your top and is right on target.Mine is an 05 342 350's b3 2.2 same as you stock 22 pitch 4000 rpm 28.6 on the GPS ,I also top out at 5000 40 mph.plus or minus with those faira tachs. But do take notice all my gauge's do work. I put the hill 4x4s no my 270 and it was a great Improvement. Last ride on the to get pulled out.

Liberty44140

looks like David & Renee both have the same "straight" wheel position that I do while on plane, 9 o'clock! Renee - how do you like your Davis drive position indicator? That looks straight on, I was thinking of investing in one of those. 

DanD2

The Davis position indicator is pretty cheap.....about $24. I've had one for a few year now and it does come in handy.

reneechris14

It does come handy, it is only strait because I move it when on plane. Next is to take the wheel off when driving that will straiten this out 

Liberty44140

Good luck, I took my wheel off and straightened so at idle or in the channel it's straight but on plane it's turned. If I make it straight while on plane then it will be turned while at idle. No win from what I can tell. 

J3ff

Mine used to be straight at idle and straight on plane, then something changed this summer and I feel like I'm constantly turning to the right while on plane to keep it straight.. really weird, haven't had time to care though. 

Dream_Inn

J3ff said:

Mine used to be straight at idle and straight on plane, then something changed this summer and I feel like I'm constantly turning to the right while on plane to keep it straight.. really weird, haven't had time to care though. 

Could there be more weight on your stbd side?  that would tend to cause more pull while on plane.

Michael T

.....of course you are sure your tabs and drives have the same attitude and your fuel tanks are evened-out?

Carsnmorellc

My Hill Marine 20P Props are on their way!!  Exchanged my 22P props!  Can't wait!

Carsnmorellc

@Black_Diamond What is your cruising RPM now with the 20P props?

Handymans342

I believe it was 26 - 28

Handymans342

Dream_Inn said:

J3ff said:

Mine used to be straight at idle and straight on plane, then something changed this summer and I feel like I'm constantly turning to the right while on plane to keep it straight.. really weird, haven't had time to care though. 

Could there be more weight on your stbd side?  that would tend to cause more pull while on plane.

Check drives. Make sure they go up equally

Carsnmorellc

Yeah I went back and read the thread and he had photos of his rpm level.

Carsnmorellc

I love my new 20P setup and I am spot on with his performance. My WOT was at 5100

Autodog61

Ok, its been a year.  Dredging up this thread to ask a few more questions.  I have the Bravo III stock 24P props (who knows the diameter cause not on the props - Just serial number).  I get on plane with....effort and 2 on board (Twin 6.2L MX-2002 342 fiesta vee).  WOT, the one or two times I recall going there was around 4600 w/ speed on gauge (not GPS) showing like 34.   Here's a question - What about going with a 4x3 set up.  4 blade on the back and 3 blade up front.  Looks to me like the back blade is slighter larger diameter than front.  So, just on the back would a 4 blade help better bite and keep the 3 blade on the front to support top end?  Hill does sell a 4x3 prop set up for 9 bills vs the 4x4 set up that is 11 bills.  Not sure I want to spend the coin for the additional 6 MPH.....maybe....With 1/2 tank fuel and 600 lbs peoples I get there...in a dog year.  But, my last boat was a Pachanga so I am likely unfairly comparing the time to get on plane between the two  

randy56

When I changed to 4x3 it was the best thing I done for the boat.

Black_Diamond

There is no diameter difference on the B-3 props. I cannot speak on the 4x3 set up. But dropping to a 20P 4x4 was worth it for me. 

Big thing is your WOT rpm. If you cannot hit the rpm speced by merc you are over propped. 

vyborny1

@Autodog61, I think there is something else going on other than props. I have the same year & engines, props. You should have no problems getting on plane. I have gotten on plane with 5 adults & 3 children with out batting an eye. 
When I had my survey done, the surveyor said that the 6.2's should have no problem hitting 5100 rpms.  At wot, i run between 42-44 mph. At 34 mph, i'm at 3800 rpms.  Hope that gives you a baseline.  

Autodog61

Thanks for the feedback.  As noted here and other threads, the 24P may just be slightly overprop.  I went out for a 50 mile run in Puget Sound few weeks ago.  Had 4 large adults and the dog on board.  Boat gets on plane no problem?? but it takes like I said, a dog year.  By dog year, I of course exaggerate but in reality I would say like what, 20 seconds rolling throttle up to 4,000 RPM?).  So I am not indicating a problem more evaluating a potential performance increase possibility.  I can accept the Performance with the 24P props as ok.  I was running 30-32 @3700 RPM.  If I dropped to 3200 RPM I was down to 25 MPH (on speedo not GPS).  I wound it up to 4,000 at one point and got up to around 34.  But, I know for sure I cant hit over 40 even at WOT.  I will now consider strongly the 4x3 Hill set up.  Wont switch til start of next season though.  Will come back and leave feedback when I switch over.  I think I may replace the Bravo IIIs too (they're old 2002, right?  Casing has been treated couple times but still pitting - Knew I needed to replace them when I bought the boat two years ago) and I will look into gear ratio of available replacements at that time as well.  Marina runs 1/2 off labor in the winter.  Back when I replaced Alpha's on a prior boat, there were different options for final gear ratio.  I actually switched from 2 right hand rotation to counter rotating and a slightly higher final drive (Gen 1 to Gen 2 alpha).  The counter rotating switch I couldn't tell any difference but the slight higher gearing (think it was like 1.8 to 2.0?) gave additional 4 MPH with same props (was twin engine boat too).  They are subtle differences that with different props too need to be heavily vetted before spending the coin.  Thanks for the input!