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Gen 3 cool fuel issue

frenchshipfrenchship Québec ,CanadaPosts: 1,079Member ✭✭✭
I was reading the issue on the Gen 3 cool fuel issue in the Searay forum, and find funny that nobody in this forum mentioned anything about it, the problem seems to be serious enough. Here is part of discussion going on ............ Well, after chasing a fuel problem around for the better part of two weeks, I finally discovered an issue that Mercruiser has known about since 2004 but is in no hurry to discuss. The early model "Gen 3 Cool Fuel Module" that many of us have on our sterndrive Searays has major design issues, and not just the issue of corrosion at the raw water coolant lines that Frank W posted a while back. A larger issue concerning the fuel itself. It seems that there is a known paint delamination issue with the inside of the module where the paint peels off the casting and clogs the fuel passages, high and low pressure fuel pumps, and fuel regulator. There are also documented cases of big blocks (8.1L) where the paint gets into the fuel rail and clogs the injectors. The service tech instructed me not to run the engine at all until the repair can be made to avoid the possibility of damaging the injectors. This service bulletin covers a large range of sterndive engines including 5.0MPI, 5.7Mag350, 6.2LMPI and 8.1L. I spoke with my local dealer about my engine operating issue and he had the answer to my problem immediately. He didn't even have to test drive it as he has seen so many boats with the same issue in the last several years. It has to be a big problem when he told me that Mercruiser will pay for parts and labor 100%. I am posting a link below to the service bulletin which shows the engines and serial numbers involved (notice the date on the bulletin). The servicebulletin discusses how to check for proper vacuum and fuel pressure but it does NOT explain why you could be experiencing incorrect readings. Your dealer will confirm the why. I know there are some here like CincyAquaholic who have had this exact problem and have already replaced the filters and high pressure fuel pump. That is only a temporary fix as the paint will continue to delaminate and clog the fuel module. The entire module must be replaced to solve the problem. This module retails for close to $1K. Here's the link which covers the corrosion issue but makes no mention of the paint problem: http://www.mercruiserparts.com/bulle...2009/EN_01.PDF And the discussion goes on for many pages........ Since my boat is equipped with the same systems. I was wondering if you guys knew anything about it? I was thinking instead of spending all that money in buying the new system x2 if I could go back to install the older system that used the cartridge for water separator with no cooling system for the fuel that was install on later model to prevent vapor lock, that seems to be not a problem in colder climate like Canada Thanks for any infos L
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Comments

  • Dream_InnDream_Inn Annapolis, MDPosts: 4,741Member, Moderator mod
    I can't say I heard much about it, which is probably a good thing.  Here is a link to the PDF.  Link

    Dream 'Inn III -- 2008 400 Express

  • frenchshipfrenchship Québec ,CanadaPosts: 1,079Member ✭✭✭
    Maybe I should not have read that,: )but it seems to a big thing we the owners of Searay boats. And I think that it should be read in the Searay forums. And maybe that some of the more knowledgable mechanical members of this forum could comments on this situation Tks Paul
  • AlswaggAlswagg Posts: 2,311Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sorry, but I have documented hundreds of these Mercruisers with the Gen 3 cool fuel system.  Many with well over 700 hrs.  Not one has had any issues with the fuel pump.    Change your filters regulary, both the disk and the basket.  Serious, no issues with any.  Maybe only Sea Rays are vulnerable due to snobby attitude of the owners.  lol  Just kidding.  I have serveral Sea Rays in our service contracts as well.  Al
  • Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Holland, MichiganPosts: 4,359Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    I thought "SR" was on the naughty word list? lol

    Thanks for that input Al!!

    2003 342FV "Black Diamond", 350 MAG MPI, 20P 4x4 Props, PC BYC, Holland, MI
  • Dream_InnDream_Inn Annapolis, MDPosts: 4,741Member, Moderator mod
    Al, thanks for the information.  When you say change the disk & basket filters, where are these located?  on engine or inline further up?  I've always changed the water separator, but I'm sure there are others I may need to investigate.  I do know of the metal ones that are inline further towards the tank.

    Dream 'Inn III -- 2008 400 Express

  • AlswaggAlswagg Posts: 2,311Member ✭✭✭✭✭

    Inside the cool fuel unit, you have a removeable basket type element.  As well as a lower round disk element.  These are fairly expensive but should be changed seasonally.   Note, only on Gen 3 cool fuel. 

  • Dream_InnDream_Inn Annapolis, MDPosts: 4,741Member, Moderator mod
    I guess my next step will be to figure out what type of fuel cooler I have.  Thanks Al!

    Dream 'Inn III -- 2008 400 Express

  • Capt_SteveCapt_Steve Posts: 281Member admin
    @Black_Diamond ... no harm in mentioning "SR" ... their owners need to know what they're missing!
  • 212rowboat212rowboat Posts: 2,176Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    y'all ALL need to be worried about ethanol and it's ability to 'delaminate' surfaces, or even attack the bonding agent in fiberglass... I bet a dollar some of the folks with this issue had help by that junk.
  • frenchshipfrenchship Québec ,CanadaPosts: 1,079Member ✭✭✭
    I will take both Gen cool 3 apart this fall to have a look, and also to find a way to stop a leak at the water hoses that plug into the Gen cool (see picture )the O Ring (Flat )are not available any more . I will keep,you guys updated.
  • Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Holland, MichiganPosts: 4,359Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    Quad rings are readily availble.

    2003 342FV "Black Diamond", 350 MAG MPI, 20P 4x4 Props, PC BYC, Holland, MI
  • frenchshipfrenchship Québec ,CanadaPosts: 1,079Member ✭✭✭
    Hi, where can I get them my dealer told me they where not available , would you know by any chance the part no: Thanks Paul
  • Capt_SteveCapt_Steve Posts: 281Member admin
    These guys have just about every O Ring ever made... www.applerubber.com/orings
  • l-skynyrdl-skynyrd California DeltaPosts: 178Member ✭✭✭
    Does anyone know what years this Gen 3 cool fuel thing was used?

    You have to love the water....

    Len & Robyn   342 FV  Freebird

  • Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Holland, MichiganPosts: 4,359Member ✭✭✭✭✭

    2003 342FV "Black Diamond", 350 MAG MPI, 20P 4x4 Props, PC BYC, Holland, MI
  • frenchshipfrenchship Québec ,CanadaPosts: 1,079Member ✭✭✭
    Our rinker is a 2007 300 Express with a gen cool3 and it does not have the latest model of gen cool 3 see pictures in the above discussion. The newest system does not use Quad rings. Paul
  • seguirseguir CanadaPosts: 171Member ✭✭✭
    I don't understand....is this a re-call from MerCruiser?   My engine serial number meets this description.  Are you saying the cool fuel module "has" to be replaced with the newer one and MerCruiser will pay for all parts and labour??
  • TikiHut2TikiHut2 Sarasota, FlPosts: 1,431Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    Seguir, page 3 of the link that DI posted above said it is NOT a recall but if it fails under warranty that they'll cover the cost of a new kit.

    I'm not even sure if my seawater cooled '04 5.7 has this fuel cooler, or what version if it does. I'm almost positive the fuel line runs from the tank to an in-line filter, then up to my seperator and immeadiatly to the fuel pump. If it does have a fuel cooler I haven't noticed it but I'll be looking tonight.

    Is this fuel cooler filter replacement on a list of recommended regularly scheduled things to do somewhere? Sounds like it might be easily missed causing a world of grief. Mike
    2004 FV270, 300hp 5.7 350mag MPI Merc 305hrs, 2:20 Bravo3 OD w.22p props, 12v Lenco tabs, Kohler 5kw genset, A/C, etc.etc...
    Regular weekender, Trailer stored indoors, M/V TikiHut, Sarasota, Fl
  • Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Holland, MichiganPosts: 4,359Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm with you on this, I'll have to look when I'm out next. Don't need this trouble. lol

    2003 342FV "Black Diamond", 350 MAG MPI, 20P 4x4 Props, PC BYC, Holland, MI
  • seguirseguir CanadaPosts: 171Member ✭✭✭
    Sound to me that the unit is defective and will have to be replace at some time.  Merc is just hoping it is after the warranty expires.   My understanding this can cause a lot of damage to the injectors.  So the question is, do we bite the bullet now, or pay a lot more money later.  All gas has ethanol in it which seems to be the problem and is why the paint is breaking away.   Does anyone know how to keep an eye on this, my understanding it could be further down it the unit and you may not notice it.
  • 212rowboat212rowboat Posts: 2,176Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    not all gas has ethanol... look for recreational gas, or 'rec' gas... otherwise, use startron by starbright, available in wally world, lowes home improvement, west marine, or other marine shops..

    yup.. particles in fuel will either clog the basket on injectors, clog the rail, or slip past the baskets and cause an injector to 'hang', or not completely close... blocking the fuel causes lean conditions which can burn a cylinder up- and mind you, these things don't get an accurate reading from cylinder to cylinder for air to fuel ratio, they read a mean across both banks- so one cylinder could be super rich (due to hung up injector) and another leaning out.. .... your best defense is a good filter- and inspecting the used filter when swapping them out.. it may be your only evidence of what's happening in your fuel system before something catastrophic lets you know- noisily..
  • frenchshipfrenchship Québec ,CanadaPosts: 1,079Member ✭✭✭
    Hi, If your boat is still under warranty Mercruiser would pay for it. If not your are in for 1000$ a piece (cdn)x2 When I started this discussion, I was asking is it we be possible to remove those Gen cool 3 and go back the the system they had before just a simple water separator like the used on engine serial no.OM657507. From what I understand the Gen cool 3 where install to prevent mainly vapor in the fuel systems. And vapor lock seems to be happening only when there is excessive temperature, unless I am mistaking about this. Paul
  • 212rowboat212rowboat Posts: 2,176Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you're out of warranty, and feel comfortable doing it, go for it.. you'll need to devise a return line to the tank, and a pressure regulator inline on the engine side.. you should aim for a volume of water separated reserve enough to maintain a regulated 43psi supply to the engine even at WOT, so as not to 'run out of fuel' and lean the engine out....

    If you do go this route, take pics and post them? I'd like to see it!
  • captpaulcaptpaul long island nyPosts: 41Member ✭✭

    i have this problem with my 5.0efi engines. only 125 hrs on engines but gobs of black paint clogged system. mechanic says it is becoming all to common and mercury playing hardball and not wanting to take responsibility and let it fall on consumer for obvious DESIGN FLAW! wouldn't it be nice if a big, corporation stood behind its product???  your engines are ticking time bombs for this expensive repair.

    this goes across any manufacturer who equipped their boats with this product and it would be nice if they used their leverage to get together and advocate for their consumers and enhance brand loyalty. how about it rinker?

  • Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Holland, MichiganPosts: 4,359Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    Drop a fine letter to your 'corn friendly' congressman and let them know their highly subsidized ethanol (corn) program is costing you money, in more ways than one!

    2003 342FV "Black Diamond", 350 MAG MPI, 20P 4x4 Props, PC BYC, Holland, MI
  • seguirseguir CanadaPosts: 171Member ✭✭✭
    My opinion, we should not have to worry about this...shame on Merc for not stepping on the plate and issuing a re-call on the unit.  Can you say "Class Action".
  • 212rowboat212rowboat Posts: 2,176Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    since there is no 'safety' risk, I bet they've opted to ignore it beyond issuing a TSB, and if so, it would take a dang CALS to nail them down....

    add to that, whether or not it's ethanol related or not, they can certainly blame ethanol, which does nothing but put them in the same collective of manufacturers complaining about it- from small engine makers, to oil companies...... the only people happy with ethanol are the growers with heavily subsidized crops, who are making some serious $bank$ off this thing.... the humor to me is that is the same crowd who are tweaked about 15ppm diesel fuel that is wrecking their equipment and making it difficult to store oil for a long time... I'd like to see nothing but the 15ppm diesel delivered to that part of the country, and zero 500ppm #1 grade, or zero Biodiesel... that wold be poetic justice... but this is off topic... oops.
  • Dream_InnDream_Inn Annapolis, MDPosts: 4,741Member, Moderator mod

    OK.  Why did we have to discuss this topic!!  I now have this problem in my stbd engine.  Also 'MissKriss' has the same problem as well with his 2008 400. 

    All started on the way up to the Rendezvous & I hit the North wind and larger waves in the bay & I couldn't keep the boat on plane.  My stbd engine was about 300 rpm lower than my port (I also had full fuel, full water, & full boat).  Got up to anchor after 4 hours at running 9mph and found paint in the regulator.  Boat ran ok after that but still lagging on that engine.

    I'm trying to figure out if I just want to have all the paint removed or go with replacement.  Any thoughts??

    Dream 'Inn III -- 2008 400 Express

  • Dream_InnDream_Inn Annapolis, MDPosts: 4,741Member, Moderator mod
    edited July 2013

    ok, I've been doing a little reading on this. I don't believe I need the entire thing, but aI am concerned that paint may be in my injectors already.  I believe I can just replace it myself and need to buy the following:

    Lower Gen III module housing (no pumps or filter) - 864650A14 Two bib hose kit -865317T02  (Need to make sure, but I think it is the two hose and not the three)

    Dream 'Inn III -- 2008 400 Express

  • 212rowboat212rowboat Posts: 2,176Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2013
    easy fix for the lines, Mr. Inn...

    pull the rails.. it isn't so hard as it sounds.. you'll need new orings (2ea) for each injector... inspect the rails for deterioration.. dump them in fuel, blow them out.. repeat (x5).. rinse with water hose through the rails.. dunk in fuel again.. (fuel displaces h20)... inspect the basket on each injector for debris- they will be evident.. if they are there, send them off for cleaning and benching (for flow)..

    with a line attached (same line that goes to the rail), hit your fuel pump with juice, and pump fuel into a clean bucket... do this until no foreign matter is in the bucket..

    button it back up... (standing by for ridicule) I use KY jelly on the injector orings.. they go on easier that way... :-) .. it's far better than oil, too.
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