Mechanic Saga continues, MAYBE

onislandtime

If you remember I posted the mechanic at our marina pulled both drives off and put them back on. Anyway, the first time taking the 342 out and both engines overheated immediately (225 degrees. Shut down and was towed in). No water flow at all (check the "cans" and antifreeze still in strainers). I have a couple questions to our members, 1. could the mechanic make an error when replacing the Bravo III drives back on to disturb the water intake? 2. Has anyone heard of both water pump impellers failing at the same time (impellers are 2 season and one season old)?

aero3113

Do you have sea water pickup valves? Could they be closed and need to be opened?

Cableguy Greg

If the impellers were run dry, they could fail. My question is, why didn't they catch this while the boat was on land? Did they start it on land? If so, they should have noticed that water wasn't pumping at all. I look for that every time I start my boat on land. If they were started on land and run to operating temps, the engines would have overheated then and the problem could have been solved. Did you pay for dewinterization? If there is antifreeze still in the blocks then someone didn't do their job.

onislandtime

I have a closed system and the values are open.

GMSLITHO

Like Greg said maybe the pumps were run dry 

Liberty44140

Wondering if he ran them on the hard and burnt up both impellers 

Ian

Certainly sounds like it. Or intake pipe was squashed when drive put back.

Dream_Inn

If you had said both impellers were 2 years old, then I'd say it's possible (worse thing you can do is start your boat up in spring before changing impellers - if you have 2 summers on them).  I agree with Liberty, were they ran on hard without water?  

At this point, best to just change out impellers, make sure you collect pieces, and run at idle up to temperature.  All can easily be done in the water and take maybe a couple hours to do both engines.  Hopefully there is no big deal.  Other thing may be that your pumps just didn't prime (maybe due to wearing out inside pumps - need to check this when taking apart).

Liberty44140

Is it possible that you burnt them up when winterizing? One other thought, did you start the boat in the sling at launch? when they launch me, they have me start the boat while in the sling with drives in the water. I start it and immediately look at the strainers to make sure I have flow. If they dont put me down to waterline, the water wont make it to the pump. 

onislandtime

finding out appearently Rinkers are famous for vaper locks after sitting. When I go down to the boat next It was suggested to unscrew the blue wingnuts on the water pump and let water run out some. Then take off the hose to the riser and fire it up and see if any water comes out. If none the the impellar is no good. Cheap trouble shooting

Ian

Never had that issue at all, only issue with either vapor lock or self priming is the A/C pump sometimes doesn't prime itself just after dropping in. First run up the river fixes that. 

reneechris14

I'm the same as @Liberty44140 lower down fire it up and check strainer. On my 270 (no strainer) l would back in the trailer take put the top blue plug on the pump and burp it then fire up. 

Cableguy Greg

onislandtime said:

finding out appearently Rinkers are famous for vaper locks after sitting. When I go down to the boat next It was suggested to unscrew the blue wingnuts on the water pump and let water run out some. Then take off the hose to the riser and fire it up and see if any water comes out. If none the the impellar is no good. Cheap trouble shooting

I find it hard to believe that only Rinkers are famous for a vapor lock after sitting. I call BS. All Rinker does is put the engines in the boat. It is the same engine that is in a Sea Ray, Bayliner, Crownline and many other boats.

Michael T

Agree with all - never had that problem with many Rinkers over 30+ years. Like Cableguy Greg I too call that B.S.

Liberty44140

Does seem crazy to think that both impellers/pumps would go at the same time. Thats why I am thinking it was ran on the hard or too high out of the water in the slings. I would think that it would be extremely rare for both to go at once, even on spring start up, they are completely separate. 

reneechris14

It only takes  a couple of dry seconds to burn up the impeller the bigger problem is did it damage the pump??

Dream_Inn

Well, I see two sides to this.  Being I keep my boat on a lift, it's pulled out every time after use.  I always look at my vessel view for water pressure every time I first start.  Never an issue.

That being said, after winter, I always pull the blue plugs the first time I put the boat in and wait until I see water get to the pump.  Why?  because after sitting all winter, there's a chance that there may be nothing in the hoses.  Priming takes care of that.

At this point, why not just take two hours and change out your impellers and be done?  I've already done 6 engines this spring, not a huge deal.  Out of the 6 (all 2 yr old impellers), half were definitely ready to crack on first start up.  Bill, if you were a bit closer, I'd have already been there and changed yours out for ya!

Liberty44140

Ahh dream your making me nervous! I’m about to launch with 2 season old impellers in. Only 40 hours on them and they are soaked in -60 antifreeze so they should be fine. No time to change before launch. I’m sure they are fine but ya got me thinking! Did half of the ones you changed actually crack when you pulled them out and flexed them or were they just hard?

Dream_Inn

@liberty44140 - they actually had cracks in them.  Specifically the portion that had sat all winter compressed.  Just note that it is a chance you are taking after the second winter of impellers sitting.  The 40 hours really doesn't mean anything.  It's the sitting all winter that makes it worse.  (Sorry, I know you don't want to hear that)  Do you have vessel view to monitor the water pressure?  If so, that'll at least tell you when you start it up.  

At a minimum, after the boat is put in the water, pull the blue plugs just to make sure water gets to the impeller before you start it (pull the upper blue plug on pump - lower one won't have water because it is after the impeller).

onislandtime

@Dream_Inn no water at all in the pump when pulled the blue plug. I have been told different things, can the pump be pulled in the water?

Ian

For what it's worth I just replaced mine for the first time since we've had since 2013 - I am a bad boat parent! Not having temp issues it's didn't come to mind as a need although I know of best practice after learning here and it's on the 3 year schedule now.

With a long trip last year and one planned this I decided it was time anyway, both were (are) in very good condition so good for emergency spare. Yes, some vanes were not springing back out as they should and flow would have been down (with VVMM I'll know that now!).

I think it also depends on what you are sucking through the pumps - where we are is pretty greasy mud so if anything gets sucked in it's likely to be somewhat lubricating versus sucking in sand and gouging things.

Dream_Inn

onislandtime said:

@Dream_Inn no water at all in the pump when pulled the blue plug. I have been told different things, can the pump be pulled in the water?

The pump can easily be pulled in the water.  Just raise the hose that comes from the outdrive (after removing from pump) until it's above the water line.  If there is no water at pump at all when it is sitting in water (assuming you pulled correct blue plug - top one on pump - or both of them), then you have a different issue all together.  No water coming in top hose to the pump with boat in water means you have blockage coming in from outdrive.

onislandtime

Could the idiot had put the drives on in a manner to block the water flow from the drives?

Cableguy Greg

onislandtime said:

Could the idiot had put the drives on in a manner to block the water flow from the drives?

I would say no since it is a hose. If he did, he should not be a marine mechanic.

Liberty44140

Very interesting stuff here, thanks for the comments Dream and Icoultha. 

Onislandtime you mentioned that you have through hull valves. If so you should have plenty of water at the pumps even if the drives both have blockage. Did you pull the upper plug as Dream mentioned? Not lower

reneechris14

You also mentioned there is still antifreeze in the strainer?? If the boat is in the water loosing the top of the strainer and water should  flow. 

GMSLITHO

onislandtime said:

Could the idiot had put the drives on in a manner to block the water flow from the drives?

I did that once on a king cobra Omc drive putting back a lower unit the hose just drops down in to the lower unit ant the impeller is up on top of the drive.......... that was a 5 minute ride and a tow back in 

MarkB

onislandtime said:

finding out appearently Rinkers are famous for vaper locks after sitting. When I go down to the boat next It was suggested to unscrew the blue wingnuts on the water pump and let water run out some. Then take off the hose to the riser and fire it up and see if any water comes out. If none the the impellar is no good. Cheap trouble shooting

I had exactly that same problem when they changed my impeller. We were getting low cooling water pressure (raw water) and when we unscrewed the blue wingnuts, air lock was released and we went back to normal, flow and temp were fine.

onislandtime

Thanks everyone. Going to boat tomorrow and taking off the hose from seacock and start from there. Its suspected a airlock somewhere! Just start from where water should obviously be coming in and move toward the pump.

onislandtime

UPDATE: Changed impellers, filled all hoses (port) with water and that fixed the problems. I suspect air lock in port side and starboard impeller was just old (2 seasons).

rasbury

good ending then....