A new MerCruiser rocker/oil problem, and a related question:

Jodijoe

zaverin1 said:

You need engine tear down 

I know nothing about engines. What does that mean? Both engines rebuilt? $14K?

Jodijoe

Reading between the lines, the painted fuel injectors and rails ruined the engines? Time to call a lemon law attorney? Class Action?

F1100

Check your spark plugs and see how each cylinder is burning

69fastback

Jodijoe said:

Reading between the lines, the painted fuel injectors and rails ruined the engines? Time to call a lemon law attorney? Class Action?

Your rocker problem has nothing to do with that. Lean/rich will not do what happened to your engine, period. 

Jodijoe

What would YOU do? My service manager is recommending changing all the push rods and rockers. It sounds like one poster is recommending rebuilding the engines. Thoughts?

F1100

I would pull the heads and inspect them. Inspect rocker travel distances, and inspect the push rods. Then replace the whole valve train, with new parts. I would also inspect all of the valve springs as well, and the valve seating.

F1100

I would first check the plugs of each cylinder to see what each cylinder is burning like. That will tell you if its a lean fuel related issue.

F1100

those rockers in your picture are also burned... So they were exposed to alot of friction without lubrication. What was your oil pressure at during these failures? Was oil getting to that head? Check the oil pan for debris with magnet. What does your oil look like? pull your oil filter and cut it apart and see what you find in the element.

Liberty44140

You are getting some great advice here but I would consider a second opinion from an alternative local shop as well. Are you located somewhere with another reputable shop or mechanic even for a phone discussion? My primary concern with your current shop is that they had you change all of those fuel components when you were having no issue and no paint chipping. I would also call Mercruiser myself to discuss ways to diagnose and repair the rocker issue. Sorry but there is no smoking gun for a class action or lawsuit at this point (except maybe with your shop) so if your going to call Merc its for troubleshooting help. I wouldnt let them replace anything until you can figure out why this happened with the support of someone outside your shop. 

Black_Diamond

Chasing a lawyer on a used and out of warranty issue is just a losing cause IMO. Get a 2nd opinion. Check the other rockers. Check oil flow to the pushrod/rockers. 

Jodijoe

Thank you all for your time and suggestions!

The previous service manager is the one who recommended the fuel rails and injectors recall last summer even though there were no problems. The new service manager is left to deal with my engine. He said yes, they are receiving oil. My Rinker is a 2010 40EC but the engines were manufactured in '08 at the crash of the economy. This new service manager said the problem sounds similar to the official recall from '01-'06 with the push rods and rockers, even though my engine numbers don't fall within that range, so he's wondering if they mothballed some old parts to save money at that time, and this is the result? That's why he's recommending changing all of the rest of the push rods and rockers. I'll get a second opinion if it doesn't take weeks. Other thoughts? 

zaverin1

Get a sea ray?
jk

Liberty44140

Has he called mercruiser yet? If there was a recall on this 2 years prior and he is a mercruiser certified shop then he should be on the phone with Merc. If he is not merc certified then it’s time to move to a merc shop. 

Jodijoe

Liberty44140 said:

Has he called mercruiser yet? If there was a recall on this 2 years prior and he is a mercruiser certified shop then he should be on the phone with Merc. If he is not merc certified then it’s time to move to a merc shop. 

Largest marina in the area, so yes they are Merc certified. I called and the person listed is out of the office, of course. The rep came out and inspected. Said there's nothing he can do. I'll get his name tomorrow. 

Liberty44140

At the very least that merc rep should have told the shop the best path forward. Did he?

Jodijoe

Liberty44140 said:

At the very least that merc rep should have told the shop the best path forward. Did he?

Nope. I asked the service manager what was the code on the vessel view and he danced around it.

rasbury

Dang, I know this has to be frustrating...

Jodijoe

rasbury said:

Dang, I know this has to be frustrating...

The first set of split rockers were from Starboard #8 and Port #6, both exhaust side.
The service manager told me today that we now have a split rocker Port #1 cylinder this time. Sounds like inferior parts? Merc doing nothing.

Enjoy the Memorial Day weekend everyone, I'll be tied to the dock with my thunb up my butt while the people who made this junk will be out enjoying the water.

69fastback

What year are the engines?  How many hours?

69fastback

So I found it in another thread. The boat is 9 years old, and this problem just surfaced. What exactly do you want Mercruiser to do to your 9 year old engines?  I’d venture to say that have several hundred hours on them, and now your having failures that you want to attribute to inferior parts?  I know it sucks to have something like this going on, but it isn’t Mercruisers fault and it isn’t a parts problem. 

I would still bet you have an oiling issue. Those rockers aren’t breaking because they’re fatigued, or due to any kind of integrity of the parts. Either someone has worked on those engines and incorrectly installed the valvetrain, or by some crazy coincidence you’ve developed oiling issues in both motors. Either way, you can’t take engines that have been running for years that have now developed an issue and blame it on inferior parts, or Mercruiser building “junk.”  

In my opinion your first move should be to find a new mechanic who is willing to go into the engines and find the actual cause of what’s causing the rockers to split, because I’m telling you the rockers are not the issue. You have another problem, and I would not expect Merc to do anything about it because it’s not their fault. 

Jodijoe

69fastback said:

So I found it in another thread. The boat is 9 years old, and this problem just surfaced. What exactly do you want Mercruiser to do to your 9 year old engines?  I’d venture to say that have several hundred hours on them, and now your having failures that you want to attribute to inferior parts?  I know it sucks to have something like this going on, but it isn’t Mercruisers fault and it isn’t a parts problem. 

I would still bet you have an oiling issue. Those rockers aren’t breaking because they’re fatigued, or due to any kind of integrity of the parts. Either someone has worked on those engines and incorrectly installed the valvetrain, or by some crazy coincidence you’ve developed oiling issues in both motors. Either way, you can’t take engines that have been running for years that have now developed an issue and blame it on inferior parts, or Mercruiser building “junk.”  

In my opinion your first move should be to find a new mechanic who is willing to go into the engines and find the actual cause of what’s causing the rockers to split, because I’m telling you the rockers are not the issue. You have another problem, and I would not expect Merc to do anything about it because it’s not their fault. 

The engines had only about 150 hours when I bought the boat last year. 

So then what could POSSIBLY be the problem? Engine running lean from improper fuel rail/injector repair from the recall that wasn't really a recall? The shop doesn't want to confess to ruining 2 engines? What else could it be?

69fastback

Jodijoe said:

69fastback said:

So I found it in another thread. The boat is 9 years old, and this problem just surfaced. What exactly do you want Mercruiser to do to your 9 year old engines?  I’d venture to say that have several hundred hours on them, and now your having failures that you want to attribute to inferior parts?  I know it sucks to have something like this going on, but it isn’t Mercruisers fault and it isn’t a parts problem. 

I would still bet you have an oiling issue. Those rockers aren’t breaking because they’re fatigued, or due to any kind of integrity of the parts. Either someone has worked on those engines and incorrectly installed the valvetrain, or by some crazy coincidence you’ve developed oiling issues in both motors. Either way, you can’t take engines that have been running for years that have now developed an issue and blame it on inferior parts, or Mercruiser building “junk.”  

In my opinion your first move should be to find a new mechanic who is willing to go into the engines and find the actual cause of what’s causing the rockers to split, because I’m telling you the rockers are not the issue. You have another problem, and I would not expect Merc to do anything about it because it’s not their fault. 

The engines had only about 150 hours when I bought the boat last year. 

So then what could POSSIBLY be the problem? Engine running lean from improper fuel rail/injector repair from the recall that wasn't really a recall? The shop doesn't want to confess to ruining 2 engines? What else could it be?

 No. As it’s been said a few times now, a lean condition will not cause this. That is absolutely 100% not the issue. You have improperly installed valvetrain or an oiling problem. I’d get a second opinion, because obviously the shop
isnt going to own up to it. 

69fastback

And something else. You’ve said they are replacing these with “racing” rocker arms. I assume they are roller type rockers and if you have any kind of oiling issue, the needle bearings in those will fail even quicker than the OEM stamped rockers, and when they fail they’ll send needles bearing throughout your engine.  

J3ff

Jodijoe. I have been in your shoes. This is the worst of the worst. It makes you want to get out of boating and never look back. Look for my thread of buying a rinker and having the motor end up completely trashed on the first weekend of ownership.

I completely agree with you on the fact that Mercury and other boat engine manuf. really just make complete crap, screw up on a regular basis and then expect us to just be okay with it. 

It's amazing that some other company hasn't come into the market and completely figured out how to fix these problems. 

I had to throw 20,000 USD at my problem to get it fixed and it was at the end of the season. Still don't know how I got through it without having a meltdown.... just know that sooner or later they will figure it out and life will be good after that point! 

LaRea

J3ff said:

... Mercury and other boat engine manuf. really just make complete crap, screw up on a regular basis and then expect us to just be okay with it.  

I can't really agree with that part.  How many engine failures happen to engines that receive correct maintenance and are correctly operated on a weekly basis?  It's extremely rare.  Fails can almost always be traced back to something an operator did, or didn't do.  

Jodijoe

J3ff said:

Jodijoe. I have been in your shoes. This is the worst of the worst. It makes you want to get out of boating and never look back. Look for my thread of buying a rinker and having the motor end up completely trashed on the first weekend of ownership.

I completely agree with you on the fact that Mercury and other boat engine manuf. really just make complete crap, screw up on a regular basis and then expect us to just be okay with it. 

It's amazing that some other company hasn't come into the market and completely figured out how to fix these problems. 

I had to throw 20,000 USD at my problem to get it fixed and it was at the end of the season. Still don't know how I got through it without having a meltdown.... just know that sooner or later they will figure it out and life will be good after that point! 

Thanks, I'll look for your thread.

Jodijoe

69fastback said:

And something else. You’ve said they are replacing these with “racing” rocker arms. I assume they are roller type rockers and if you have any kind of oiling issue, the needle bearings in those will fail even quicker than the OEM stamped rockers, and when they fail they’ll send needles bearing throughout your engine.  

I appreciate your input. My service manager said there is no oiling problem. He believes these rockers might have been part of the '01-'06 recall and put on a shelf until my engines were built during the financial crash of '08. The engines have only around 160 hours. If he is correct about bad parts, it makes sense that Merc won't fess up because they would also be on the hook for all the labor expenses, which is a shame if true, because financial times are now good, so they could afford to do right by people by finally making good now. Monopolies are supposed to be illegal in this country, so the marine engine industry is long overdue to be disrupted by some more competition. The public deserves a better experience than to want to quit boating.

My marina is the largest in the area, so there's no obvious second choice for a second opinion, but I will certainly get one if switching out all the rockers and push rods fix  fails to fix the problem.

reneechris14

These motors are GM product (valve train) there are millions of these motors on the street.tested and proven. 2009 boat 190 hours 20 hours a year. Point at a fuel injectors and its not a paint issue because they did not change the gen 3 fuel filter. Injectors do get gummed up with bad fuel. I would pull the valve covers off to make sure there is oil coming up to the rockers. Oil and fuel don't have anything to do with each other. 

Jodijoe

reneechris14 said:

These motors are GM product (valve train) there are millions of these motors on the street.tested and proven. 2009 boat 190 hours 20 hours a year. Point at a fuel injectors and its not a paint issue because they did not change the gen 3 fuel filter. Injectors do get gummed up with bad fuel. I would pull the valve covers off to make sure there is oil coming up to the rockers. Oil and fuel don't have anything to do with each other. 

My service manager said he turned a wrench at GM for 26 years. He pulled valve covers and said they're getting oil.

69fastback

Jodijoe said:

69fastback said:

And something else. You’ve said they are replacing these with “racing” rocker arms. I assume they are roller type rockers and if you have any kind of oiling issue, the needle bearings in those will fail even quicker than the OEM stamped rockers, and when they fail they’ll send needles bearing throughout your engine.  

I appreciate your input. My service manager said there is no oiling problem. He believes these rockers might have been part of the '01-'06 recall and put on a shelf until my engines were built during the financial crash of '08. The engines have only around 160 hours. If he is correct about bad parts, it makes sense that Merc won't fess up because they would also be on the hook for all the labor expenses, which is a shame if true, because financial times are now good, so they could afford to do right by people by finally making good now. Monopolies are supposed to be illegal in this country, so the marine engine industry is long overdue to be disrupted by some more competition. The public deserves a better experience than to want to quit boating.

My marina is the largest in the area, so there's no obvious second choice for a second opinion, but I will certainly get one if switching out all the rockers and push rods fix  fails to fix the problem.

I hope you get it figured out because there’s nothing more frustrating than things like these.