Windlass overheating?

Aqua_Aura

Horizon 600 Rinker 280


We pulled anchor in 15 feet of water and it was not stuck on anything yet the windlass would slow down as I pulled and if I let off the switch for a few seconds it would then pull normal then slow down. Finally got the anchor in but the breaker at the helm did trip about a foot short and it would not reset for about 15 sec. I guess maybe the breaker was still hot? 

After we got it in we then docked and I removed the chain from the gypsy and ran the motor under no load and after about 15-20 sec it would begin to slow down like it was being loaded. Let off the switch for a few seconds then it would speed up again. 

I am thinking the motor may be going bad and overheating itself or less likely maybe the helm breaker has an issue as it did trip and took awhile to be able to reset. 

Any thoughts??? 

Michael T

@Aqua_Aura.....this happened on several friends' boats and to Bryan who who purchased our 360 and it is usually a sign that a windlass was underpowered for the needs and the motor is going. You are a very knowledgeable boater so I know you have checked all cables and grounds for resistance.

Aqua_Aura

I think the windlass is probably sized correctly but it seems like the motor is just getting worn out and as it warms up at creates load on the system. Even with the chain out of it and doing nothing it would still slow down. I didn't get much troubleshooting time yesterday as we were done using it and just enjoying the day at the docks. I'm away from the boat today so figured I would throw it out there 🙂. 

I'll remove the motor tomorrow and give it a look. I'll have time to check the connections as well. Seems like if it was a bad wire it would be a constant problem though. 

YYZRC

Are you pulling anchor with the engines running?

Liberty44140

On other boats I’ve also popped the windlass breaker going from up to down to up too fast.

Aqua_Aura

Engine is running and I'm not changing direction just up or down. 

When I get to the boat I can check connections for corrosion. If that's the case I could be getting resistance causing the motor to overwork. 

I just remembered that my house battery hasn't been that great lately so that may be my issue. I will get that replaced regardless and also check my connections. Even with the engine running that's a big load on the battery especially since it's so old. 

Michael T

You all know I love Rinkers. The one item on my EC 310 and EC 360 that I thought was "cheap" were the two windlasses. Compared to boats of similar size the windlasses on both of my Rinkers were undersized and both heated-up and slowed too quickly from day one and I bought both boats new and direct from the factory and was ocd gentle with them. 

raybo3

I don't let the windlass pull the boat. I put the in gear and the windlass on pulls up the slack.

Liberty44140

Agree with Ray, I slowly creep forward while the windlass is pulling up the anchor with not much tension. Admiral tells me to speed/slow or turn. Only stress on the windlass is when the anchor is straight down and it needs to pop out of the bottom. I also always tie the rhode to the cleat, I don’t leave the stress of the boat on the windlass while anchored. 

aero3113

Same here, I have to get myself to tie to the cleat though.

Aqua_Aura

Definitely not pulling my boat with the windlass. I did use the cleat to tie off for the night. Hadn't done that before. 

Michael T

......and a big pile of weeds/mud is difficult on a windlass too.

YYZRC

When I anchor at a popular beach, I drop anchor in 6-8' deep water and then let out the chain and a bit of rope.  Then I set the anchor by tugging in reverse.  Then I let out another 100'+ of rode and put the boat in reverse briefly to get momentum, then I lift the drives all the way up and drift into shallow (3') water, then add a stern anchor.  I use the cleat.

I use the windlass to pull me back to the deeper water before I drop the drives and go.  I've never had an issue with either the 330 or 350 windlass being able to do this?

LaRea

I anchor 30-40 times a year, and I rarely use the engines unless the wind is over 15-20 mph.  It's partly from having 60 feet of chain.  Haul in 5 feet, let the weight of the chain pull the boat forward, haul in another 5 feet.  

I also don't cleat the anchor rode.  Not underway, not anchored.  I've had 50 tons of boats hanging on my windlass without cleating the rode (yes, in light winds).  

bella-vita

Yah I have never tied my anchor to cleat , have many boats tied off and no problem, sometimes I use motors sometimes no

raybo3

Wow I always tie to a cleat and never pull the boat with the windless. 

LaRea

raybo3 said:

Wow I always tie to a cleat and never pull the boat with the windless. 

I don't blame you, and lots of people do exactly that.  But I'll share why I don't do it that way.  

First, it's a 700-pound windlass.  The load needed to pull my boat forward in light wind/current is only 50 pounds, maybe 75 at most (10% of the load capacity).  The windlass can handle it.  

Also, I typically run the windlass at a 50% duty cycle:  On for 5 seconds to pick up slack, then off for 5 seconds while the weight of the chain pulls the boat forward.  It's not a heavy workout for the windlass.  The only time I use the engines is when the windlass can't get the anchor unstuck from the Potomac River mud.  

On cleating -- this is more of a personal phobia.  I have personally seen what an anchor rode and windlass can do to human fingers, and it terrifies me.  Yes, cleating the rode would unload the windlass, but I don't touch the rode unless I have to.  I'm not cleating it for anything less than a named storm.  

Getting back to the point, a healthy windlass system can easily pull a boat without overheating.  

raybo3

@LaRea I guess 2 each his own....lol starting a motor under heavy load every 5 seconds is not good for the motor because of start up current draw. 7 times full load amps. Glad you haven't had any problems or issues. When I wrap the cleat I don't "lock" it in. Just a couple of wraps and done.... just say'n

Ian

The manuals of Lewmar windlasses state pretty clearly not to use the windlass to hold you and you should cleat or otherwise secure the rode with the load off the unit. I always cleat it and motor up to free the anchor and use the windlass just to bring it up.

Willhound

And using a bridle means limited contact with chain or rode and takes a lot of the "jerk" out of being anchored if the wind comes up or a boat passes.

LaRea

@raybo3 and @icoultha you are both correct, and those are indeed good practices.  I have ignored them 500+ times over the past 18 years, and never had a windlass problem.  Let's hope these words don't come back to haunt me. 

Dream_Inn

Willhound said:

And using a bridle means limited contact with chain or rode and takes a lot of the "jerk" out of being anchored if the wind comes up or a boat passes.

Yes, I've been using the Prusik knot now ever since it was mentioned on this forum a few years ago.  I'll say, those nights when I really didn't expect the wind to pick up or at least not have that annoying pull from the anchor, well, I'm glad I had the bridle on.  Just this past weekend at Rinkervous, on Friday night we had an annoying northern wind that was just enough to bob the bow up and down at 3am.  Sure was nice having that bridle out there (also was nice having 130+ feet of rode in 7 feet of water too).

reneechris14

@Aqua_Aura there is a barring between the motor and gypsy. It gets dry and holds it back. See if you can find a exploded view to see it. 

Aqua_Aura

Looks like 40,41 and 10,19 seem to be needle bearings? I could give them a look as well. I was at the boat yesterday but rather than replace my battery and diagnose the problem we swam from the docks and drank 😂

aero3113

@LaRea , I guess if you think about it, the windless pulling up the chain and anchor is probably just as heavy or heavier than pulling the boat in.

raybo3

Just a food for thought. Some windlass have a cleat built in and all boats have a cleat in the locker. If it wasn't need they wouldn't be there.  @LaRea I hope we didn't put a whammy on you. Not the intention at all. 🤞🤞🤞

LaRea

If the weather is so bad that I need to cleat the rode, maybe I shouldn't be anchoring anyway.  But I do like having the option to cleat it.  

raybo3

@LaRea how much chain do you have?

LaRea

60 feet of 5/16", plus a 22-lb anchor, so total weight around 80 pounds.  

Aqua_Aura

I think I am gonna change out my single 12V for 2 6V 210AH in series. The battery place in town carries Rolls which seem to be highly rated and after reading over some test and comparison I think I am gonna stay with flooded batteries. 

reneechris14

@raybo3  there is no cleat in my anchor/ windlass hole. I agree there should be but when I had my 342 I would only cleat if others tied to me. And as for a bridal great (lowers pull point reduces swing)but what if the anchor comes loose you will be in some trouble. I don't know how you motor up to the anchor my windlass (my last 3 boats)only pulls when there is some tension. Ps miss my Rinker.