Ethanol Fuel - Canada - Nov 1st 2022

mattie

Just a heads up.
ALL gasoline sold in Canada is gov't mandated to have a minimum of 10% ethanol.
You cannot get non-ethanol fuel anywhere. I've tried.

I'd say the old method of filling your tank at the end of a season might not be a good idea. 
New practice will likely to be to run your equipment empty before storage.

randy56

not good for any kinda rec vehicles.

mattie

@randy56

My recreational 'spark plug index' is quite high.
Lots of lawn equip, snowblowers, snowmobiles, etc.

Ethanol destroys that stuff, gums up carbs, overheats, fuel lines/gaskets turn to goo.
My buddies snowblower fuel lines literally turned to jelly.

YYZRC

Ugh. That’s frustrating. 

Grahamu

I have always advised not to fill up the fuel tank before winter storage. Run them close to empty and if you have ethanol fuel add ethanol treatment .during the last run of the season.

PickleRick

We've had ethanol fuel for years now. Even your pure gas has ethanol content although lower than 10% 

I prefer marine stabil over all others.

The fuel in my personal home backup generator was qt 89 octane 10% ethanol.. 3 years ago and will fire up just fine.  I start it every 4 months.  

I highly advise stabilizing every tank of fuel you buy in boats/toys/lawn equipment and keep tank full. Start them every 60 to 90 days if possible. 


Ethanol attracts water so keep tank full keeps air and water out.

Even pure gasoline without stabilize will break down and gum up everything 

Dream_Inn

I’m with Rick on this one.  Use a good stabilizer.  I use Startron, but I’m sure there are other good brands too.  Once water is in there, you are stuck pumping it all out.  I don’t use stabilizer all thru the summer, but I know I’m gonna burn a full tank (300 gallons) a few times just in July.  But I add it again after my August 10 day trip each year.

Liberty44140

I prefer non ethanol in all my lawn equip and try to use the tru fuel in all the 2 stroke stuff but my 4 stroke tractor is 20 yrs old and has only ever seen 10% ethanol and is still going strong. Oil change every fall and I’ve drained all fuel from the system and carb every fall. If you don’t let it sit you’re in much better shape.
Mattie you can just shoot over to port Huron for ethanol free right?

Dutch320

Interesting article about USCG rules on fuel containing more than 10% ethanol. https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2022/05/20/gas-station-boat-coast-guard-detroit/9856747002/

Ian

I had seen this a few years ago - being illegal to use in boats.

PickleRick

I wish you guys would stop bashing ethanol fuels, I make so much money off of them. 

PickleRick

Dream_Inn said:

I’m with Rick on this one.  Use a good stabilizer.  I use Startron, but I’m sure there are other good brands too.  Once water is in there, you are stuck pumping it all out.  I don’t use stabilizer all thru the summer, but I know I’m gonna burn a full tank (300 gallons) a few times just in July.  But I add it again after my August 10 day trip each year.

If I ever buy another gassers boat I'm naming her Gretta 

mattie

Liberty44140 said:

Mattie you can just shoot over to port Huron for ethanol free right?

Yaa, My plan is to fill up some gas cans in Port Huron & strap them in the bed of the truck.
Although CBP does not like fuel crossing the border in any sort of cans. 

mattie

Hopefully Michigan doesn't follow suit & use ethanol in all blends as well.
I usually fill up boat at Desmonds in Black River.

randy56

So what is the government's reasoning behind no non ethanol? Is this trend coming to the US?

Liberty44140

Would be a lot of boat issues…. Heck Tiara was still using fiberglass tanks even in to around the year 2000

PickleRick

If there is a barrier coat in the fiberglass fuel tanks it won't be an issue.  

Willhound

randy56 said:

So what is the government's reasoning behind no non ethanol? Is this trend coming to the US?

There is a mistaken belief that it reduces emissions. It does cut CO2 but then releases a whole raft of other nasty gases, not to mention the emissions created in the farming of the corn and production of the ethanol. It all started back in the 70's from intense lobbying by the corn industry in the U.S. and a desire to lessen dependence on middle East oil.
What is even more ludicrous is that a new proposal that is fated to pass  will require that manufacturers ensure at least 20% of new cars, SUVs and pickups sold in Canada will be zero-emission by 2026, at least 60% by 2030, and 100% by 2035. So electric. But our electricity production and delivery infrastructure already requires a $350 Billion upgrade over the next 30 years just to maintain the status quo. Never mind the necessary upgrades for all electric vehicles. I plan on buying my last vehicle (hopefully) in 2034. Gas.
Edit for spelling....my OCD..🙄

randy56

Interesting read, kinda long, but informative.
https://axleaddict.com/cars/Pros-and-Cons-of-Ethanol-in-Gas

TonyG13

We have no non-ethanol fuel near us, so always stuck with E10. But when we visit the relatives in Iowa they have ethanol-free gas. I always notice an improvement in MPG on the good stuff. Funny thing is Iowa is one of the states pushing ethanol because of the corn farmers, yet they still offer ethanol-free gas at the pump.

Liberty44140

Not to totally reroute but interesting point on MPG. My wife’s suv takes mid grade or higher and I absolutely see an MPG improvement when I use premium vs mid grade (or when I mistakenly use regular and gave to feel it running rough until I can dilute my mistake). 

raybo3

I don't see any difference at all using mid-grade or premium in my Infiniti. I get about 17 gpm in the city on either.  

TonyG13

Liberty44140 said:

Not to totally reroute but interesting point on MPG. My wife’s suv takes mid grade or higher and I absolutely see an MPG improvement when I use premium vs mid grade (or when I mistakenly use regular and gave to feel it running rough until I can dilute my mistake). 

Motor Week on PBS just did a story on regular, mid, high grade (octane) gas. Takeaway was if your vehicle doesn't require mid or high it's a waste of money to buy it, won't help anything. But if you have a car that requires premium, it WILL affect your MPG negatively if you use the lower octane stuff.

PickleRick

The modern vehicle ignition and timing systems are so advanced most drivers won't notice a difference between 87 and 93 octane unless you're towing or driving it with a very heavy foot.   

That being said, a driver who has an ear and butt cheeks sensitive to their vehicles behavior would be more likely to notice a performance different in a 6000 lbs SUV with 300 hp vs a 3500lbs sedan with 300hp.

Lake_Bum

I've got a 6.1 SRT Hemi in my Jeep, and it has to run on 91 Octane.  I haven't tried regular unleaded yet.  It's definitely not a normal engine though 

PickleRick

No one buys an SRT 6.1 because they drive normally.  Chevy and Ford are trying to go hybrid or EV in every line while Dodge engineers are snorting coke off of a stripper's **** while drawing up plans to stick a hemi in a caravan.  


For that I respect Dodge,. Because of the V8, not the drugs and womanizing.

Lake_Bum

PickleRick said:

No one buys an SRT 6.1 because they drive normally.  Chevy and Ford are trying to go hybrid or EV in every line while Dodge engineers are snorting coke off of a stripper's **** while drawing up plans to stick a hemi in a caravan.  


For that I respect Dodge,. Because of the V8, not the drugs and womanizing.

Yea I definitely didn't buy this Jeep to be economical hahahaha.  I have read that 2023 is the last year for the Hellcat.  Chrysler is going EV for "muscle" cars.  They are definitely fast, but boring, and will definitely put a strain on the grid if more start going that direction....

YYZRC

@mattie where are the details on this?  I'm still seeing premium gas labeled as no ethanol at several stations.

Willhound

It was a proposal, that as far as I know, has not been passed yet but has been put out on the internet by certain critics of the current government as a fait accompli. But make no mistake. The weasels in power definitely want to pass it.

mattie

@YYZRC If you are still seeing "no ethanol" stickers...they need to be re-labelled.

Clean Fuel Standard Regulations for Nov 1st 2022

Effective November 1, 2022, all grades of gasoline will contain up to 10% ethanol*.  This change is not our decision, but a response from our fuel suppliers and the rest of the industry to comply with the Government of Canada’s Clean Fuel Standard regulations. 

For most people this is a non issue.
For us boaters/recreational equip - it is a big issue. Also the fact that the gov't is mandating incremental increases in ethanol content moving fwd. 

All fuels including the fancy premium fuels have a minimum 10% ethanol. Everywhere. No exceptions.

mattie

The minimum 10% content was to be completed before the end of 2022.
Content goes up from there  - 2025 - 2030