Started then died...

rasbury

Finally was able to make it to the ramp today and I started the boat on the trailer in the water everything was fine pull it off the trailer park my trailer back to the boat and the engine head died which it had never done before and it would not restart turns over sounds like it wants to catch have recently done my rotor cap plugs wires I also just change the engine oil. I did do it at my house and not on the water and I checked the oil while at the boat in the water and it seems to be overfilled would that cause it to eventually shut down it did come up the temperature was not overheating some little perplexed also doing this by voice while I'm driving home sad

Dream_Inn

Oil overfill should not cause any of this unless it is really overfilled.  It's not good, but only should cause maybe the oil to get foamy & unable to lubricate engine properly.  Again, not good but at idle for just a few minutes should be fine.  I would check your plugs.  It is possible if you put too much oil in it could enter exhaust from crankshaft.  So, how much extra oil is in there? Sorry to hear about a bad day when you finally get to get the boat out!

YYZRC

Did you close a fuel shut-off valve when you were working on other projects?

rasbury

I will get the oil sucked down and pull a couple of plugs and see if they look fouled. That was kind of what I was thinking. Hard to know when your doing it on a trailer...try to approximate sitting in the water...

Dream_Inn

I always start out with oil on the low side. I estimate to have about 1 quart low, start it and then check it.  When I say one quart low, I know what the motor should take, mine is ~8qts, so I start with 7.  It is just easier to add rather than remove.

YYZRC

The 350 only needs about 4 quarts. How much did you put in @rasbury ?

rasbury

YYZRC said:

Did you close a fuel shut-off valve when you were working on other projects?

I don't have a fuel shut off valve...always thought I should but that's kind of how it sounds...starts to want to start but does not...

rasbury

YYZRC said:

The 350 only needs about 4 quarts. How much did you put in @rasbury ?

That's what I put in but did not measure the oil coming out.  The oil does look good on the dipstick however..would have expected some mixture of old and new...but the old oil did not have many hours on it...

rasbury

Dream_Inn said:

I always start out with oil on the low side. I estimate to have about 1 quart low, start it and then check it.  When I say one quart low, I know what the motor should take, mine is ~8qts, so I start with 7.  It is just easier to add rather than remove.

That's kind of what my approach, I thought was...once I had the trailer parked I was going to shut it down and give things a look over...brought oil with me...and just so I understand....how would the excess oil get into the cylinders?

PickleRick

Only a couple of ways an engine ends up with too much oil.  

A.  The easy one, it was over filled. This is the one you want 

B.  There is additional fluid getting in there with the oil like gas, water or coolant.

C. Something dented your oil pan.  Since you likely didn't drive your boat over a curb at the Starbucks drive thru this one is likely not the culprit.

MH342

Some other things to check are the fuel water separator … a bit of water in the fuel from the winter or an errant water hose during cleaning could do that (ask me how I know lol). Also check the fuel vent for a blockage.

rasbury

MH342 said:

Some other things to check are the fuel water separator … a bit of water in the fuel from the winter or an errant water hose during cleaning could do that (ask me how I know lol). Also check the fuel vent for a blockage.

Fuel vent is a good one I had not thought of- I know for sure it is overfilled so I will start with that...the position of the boat on the trailer at home the dipstick was fine- in the water not so much. I will adjust the trailer height to replicate the dipstick reading in the water and remove oil until it reads correct- thanks all!

rasbury

Well...I broke down and went to harbor freight and bought an extractor. What a difference. I'm not sure that was the failure problem however. I don't think it ran long enough.
So I pulled the excess oil out and got it down within range and it the key hoping I'd flood it out enough to clean off the plugs....hit the key and it almost wants to start and then just sounds like not getting fuel. So, figured I'd pull the fuel water separator and see what was going on there...great plan until I spun it off and it slipped out of my hand and is now under the motor where I can't reach it...but it looked like from what spilled I could see beads of water. 

So, I put a container under where the filter spins on and hit the key putting a little fuel in the container. Looks like about 10% of what came out is water! So the water would hit the bottom of the tank and I assume the fuel pick up is also at the bottom of the tank so hopefully it is not proportionate to what is in the tank...do I buy several filters and replace them as needed? I've never dealt with this before...once that filter gets a lot of water in it does it stop the fuel from flowing I assume? How the heck would i drain it?

Aqua_Aura

You can add fuel stabilizer such as startron which will allow the water to emulsify in the fuel and then top off the tank. I had this happen one year where it ran poorly and I noticed water droplets in the water. I replaced the filter after burning about half the tank but in your case you may want to start with a new filter and then replace it after running the tank down. 

rasbury

I'm familiar with diesel fuel water separators...full separator will show on the dash and you drain it and move on..what happens with these gas ones, will they shut down the fuel supply? @Aqua_Aura I will get the treatment and get that in the tank..I had some plastic 5 gallon tanks with non ethanol fuel for my house generator and those were outside...i ran the motor on the muffs before I added that fuel and it ran fine..might have **** myself in the foot there..so how does that filter function once it gets to much water in it?

Aqua_Aura

The paper type separator filters I wouldn't imagine can handle much water compared to something like a big filter with a drain on it. Not saying what to do but just saying if that was my boat I would do additive and new filter, fill with fuel, let sit for a few days. Run until it started to act up or needed more fuel whichever came first then replace filter again. 

rasbury

Thanks @Aqua_Aura that is going to be my plan. I'm going out to WM this am to pick up both filters and a 2nd fuel water separator. I'm sure they sell the treatment there too. I'm going back to work Monday and not to happy that in 3 months of being "off" I did not get in the water but I got a lot of things done I never would have had the time for!

GMSLITHO

You can also ad dry gas or some isopropyl alcohol 

rasbury

@Aqua_Aura I also have read that once that filter gets full then it just starts pushing the water to the motor which I think is where I'm at. I pulled a couple of plugs and one I kind of freaked out a bit as it did have a little water droplets on it- thought it was coolant at first but I'm sure it was just water. 
So if I'm on the water and have been running can I change that filter if I need to? Will the fuel pressure go down on its own once the motor is cut? Would not want fuel shooting all over the place...is there anyway to safely relive that pressure you or anyone else know of?

MH342

When I had a similar issue there was a few filters worth of water. I tossed the original and got 3 new ones then ran the engine for awhile, alternating between the emptying two spares back and forth until it seemed to clear up and then spun on a new one.  You can also pre fill them with fuel to be able to run the motor a bit until then fill up.  

I had just enough fuel in the fuel lines to get about 500 yards from the dock before the first engine died and the second started to sputter just as I limped back into the slip. Maybe some knows for sure but they either do let some water carry over which caused the engine to die, or somehow they stop the flow of fuel. 

Aqua_Aura

You can change them on the water. I keep spares on my boat. Fuel injected engines may have pressure but you could unplug the fuel pump and crank the engine to relive it. 

rasbury

@Aqua_Aura I would think also you could hit the kill switch and then turn over the motor? It for sure kills the fuel pump wine when you hit the key but still dropped a little fuel when I turned it over, which is how I pulled a little fuel out after dropping the dam filter...I was able to find the separators at west marine Orlando but had to go to daytona to get the inline filter- figured I should change both. I'm going to crank later this morning. My local ramps are still screwed up from hurricanes so the ones available are packed on the weekends- not going to try that one if it's packed today. As we move into summer they tend to thin out a bit.
Thanks all for the input. I talked with the shop where I store the boat- they said to get a 12v pump that would handle fuel- pop the fuel sender- tilt the boat and suck out as much water as you can. If what I'm trying does not work that will be my next option. Hard to tell how much water is there..

Aqua_Aura

Good idea, pumping the fuel out may be a good idea or at least as much as you can get out. Mine seemed about as bad as yours looking at your photos so you may be able to do it without pumping out the fuel but if it's not hard then go for it. 

rasbury

@Aqua_Aura I don't think I would want to do that to my starter- I'm thinking I will pull the fuel sender, crank up the tounge on the trailer and get a priming ball like for an outboard snd with a hose pump out as much of the water as I can. Not my idea as per above...but their idea was to use an electric pump but to use copper tubing which I do not understand why..I just bought an extractor but it says not to use with anything flammable so I'm guessing it would ruin the seals. My day got trashed anyway for trying to go on the water so might as well see if I can get the sender out and go pick up a bulb...never get all the water out but most should be right there under the sender.. 

YYZRC

Why not just disconnect the fuel line at the cool fuel module and put a priming bulb on there? My fuel line was 3/8” so you might need a reducer down to 5/16 (or just clamp it real good since it’s temporary). 

rasbury

@YYZRC I don't think mine has the cool fuel...seems like I went looking and did not find it from horror stories I've read on here. Plus I don't want to pump out all the fuel but just the water which should be mostly on the bottom of the tank. It's parked on the street so it all should go to the corner as well and again would require a lot of cranking on the starter right?

YYZRC

The tank has a pick-up tube that is designed to pull fuel from the bottom of the tank which is where the water rests.

Either disconnect the fuel line at the engine and put the priming bulb there, or disconnect the fuel line at the pick-up tube on the tank and connect a chunk of 3/8" fuel line to a primer bulb and go to town.

Either way, in my opinion the hassle of pulling the sender is unnecessary and just introduces risk.

rasbury

Good point..it must not actually touch the bottom which is what I was thinking of pulling it. That does make sense to try that first. If it is not pulling water then probably not a lot in there...there will always be some water in the tank anyway..

PickleRick

Get some heet at your favorite local auto parts store or Walmart. 

Once you get as much water as possible out of it  put a couple bottles in your tank.  It will make water burn. 

Aqua_Aura

Oh I didn't mean to use the starter to crank on it till the fuel is pumped out. I just mean if you unplug the pump and crank the starter for about 10 seconds it would release the pressure. 

Is your engine carbureted? If so then there really is no pressure to relieve. 

rasbury

No, I'm mpi...and I understood what you were saying about releasing the pressure. I'll run out and get one shortly...need to find a container I can pump into so I can see the results.