Hot water and water heater

rasbury

I don't winterize anything...even plants. Just foes not get that cold anymore.

PickleRick

We have to bring our key lime tree and a patio full of tropicals in for the winter starting every October.  The only palms that withstand our winters are the dwarf palmettos and windmills.  There are homes around me that have huge beautiful sagos and pindos 10 ft tall but I can't make either survive a winter. 

rasbury

YYZRC said:

Next time your boat is in the water, start the engine and, with the freshwater pump turned off and the engine running, open a faucet (hot or cold). If water comes out, you have a rotten heat exchanger in the water heater. 

I had a thought on this- don't i have coolant going through that heat exchanger ? So would i not be leaking coolant? How do I test that valve? I'd eliminate it but sounds like a safety feature...could the valve have gone bad? Where else can go wrong? It was an all of a sudden type problem.

Grahamu

If the heat exchanger was leaking your coolant level on that engine would drop assuming the engine is closed cooling. I doubt there is a problem with the valve. Are all other faucets/shower working properly?. When you replaced the faucet what color was the tubing?

rasbury

Thanks @Grahamu, to clarify if the heat exchanger were leaking and the coolant was going in there, it would obviously lower the coolant level and would also come through the facuet which neither seem to be happening.  That sink behind the helm only has a blue cold line to it. I can't say for sure I tested other faucets but assumed it's all the same feed line. I will check next run but would have to assume they would act the same. That valve is the only thing sticking out to me unless there is some other internal check valve? And I am closed cooling..

PickleRick

If you want to easily rule out your antifreeze leaking into the heater you could probably run down to your local auto parts store and grab a heater core bypass kit, it's located in the aisle where the radiator hose clamps are.  

It's a 5/8 barb fitting, double sided.   Pull the hoses off of your water heater and connect them together. 

rasbury

Thanks @PickleRick- that is on the list. For as hot as the water is coming out if that was leaking then I'd think I could smell it or their would be residue. I will have to look things over again- makes no sense as there was only one supply line involved. I must be missing something. The coolant level does not seem like it is going down.

YYZRC

Presumably the water heater is full of water - that water (plus coolant?) has nowhere to go until you open a faucet. Therefore your coolant level would not drop. 

As always, several pics of the entire setup (engine and water system) would help considerably. 

rasbury

That's what l meant- I let the water run for a bit and nothing happened other than a lot of hot water. I will get more pictures of the hoses from the motor- i just fail to
 see what i screwed up! I

Grahamu

The problem is that hot water is getting into the cold water pipes. To me it doesn't make sense that the tank is the problem, In order for hot water to come out of it cold has to go in under pressure and it's not possible to have hot and cold water running in different directions in the blue pipe feeding the hot water tank. I'm now thinking it could be at the shower heads. If the valves are open at the transom shower and the shower head valve is closed it would allow mixing of hot and cold water. Just a thought but I would be checking all faucets and showers are working correctly first. With the helm faucet open you could also feel the blue pipe feeding the tank to see if it's hot.

rasbury

Interesting. Before I pulled my few remaining hairs out i will test the function with all the shower heads off at the handles as well . I would not put the kids in the boat like this- it will be be next week before I can get back in the water...

rasbury

YYZRC said:

Presumably the water heater is full of water - that water (plus coolant?) has nowhere to go until you open a faucet. Therefore your coolant level would not drop. 

As always, several pics of the entire setup (engine and water system) would help considerably. 

I have the boat home today. I accessed the helm faucet and indeed there is a blue line to it- there were no other options for hookup so I confirmed that. I ci

rasbury

No other repairs were made to, well, anything..2006 350 mpi, has the heat exchanger with coolant for engine cooling. I'll be interested in any comments. That heater is not cheap!

Grahamu

YYZRC said:

Next time your boat is in the water, start the engine and, with the freshwater pump turned off and the engine running, open a faucet (hot or cold). If water comes out, you have a rotten heat exchanger in the water heater. 

Have you tested the whole water system? If all works properly without engine running then do as @YYZRC posted above

rasbury

Grahamu said:

YYZRC said:

Next time your boat is in the water, start the engine and, with the freshwater pump turned off and the engine running, open a faucet (hot or cold). If water comes out, you have a rotten heat exchanger in the water heater. 

Have you tested the whole water system? If all works properly without engine running then do as @YYZRC posted above

Yes I replied to that comment- since I have coolant, is that what is going through the heater or water? I should be in the water am and can do that test. I also have the boat at home on an extension cord and I don't know how much juice the heater needs- i did test the hot/cold and it seem to be getting hot and the cold working normally...

rasbury

I did test and the water is coming through with the helm switch off. These heaters are 600 bucks! So if I pulled the hoses,  I guess cap off the lines at the heater, will the system work on just the cold then? I'll replace it but a lower priority right now.

Dream_Inn

You’d be better off connecting the hoses together for now.  That way both hot and cold work, just cold out of both.  This keeps the hot water line from getting stagnant.

Grahamu

You will have to join together the 2 black hoses at the tank that are connected to the engine. You will lose some coolant so you need to top it up. Now you have to deal with the tank which has a hole(s) in the heat exchanger. You can  either blank off the 2 open connections to withstand the pressure from  the pump and get hot water when on shorepower or join the red and blue hoses together and have cold water in the system

raybo3

@rasbury $600 where are you looking? 
Kuuma 11810 Marine Water Heater 6 Gallon Front Heat Exchanger 120V Side Mount | eBay

YYZRC

Post photos of the front and top of your motor, Rick. 

rasbury

raybo3 said:

@rasbury $600 where are you looking? 
Kuuma 11810 Marine Water Heater 6 Gallon Front Heat Exchanger 120V Side Mount | eBay

450 plus tax and shipping would be getting close sir! I'll have to look- I like to have things as intended and working best I can..

rasbury

YYZRC said:

Post photos of the front and top of your motor, Rick. 

I'll have to take up later- boat back to storage and we've been rain city.

rasbury

I'm thinking of bringing the boat home and figuring this out and is on the top of the list. Recap:  I've replaced the water pump prior and replaced it again about the same time this started happening. I also replaced the faucet behind the helm which is cold water only.
I have two pictures of the system I'm looking at and the pump replacement could not have caused it- it's just a cold water line in and out which begs the question, how does the hot water pressurize? You have coolant lines going through the heat exchanger but can't be providing pressure right? And if the exchanger was bad, coolant would be flooding into the water system so that does not seem to be happening...so, where is the pressure to push the water to the faucet?
Update- is there a hot water feed on the back side of the pump im not remembering? I really need to start popping the beer until the project is completed..

Dream_Inn

Ras, don’t make this any more difficult.  There is only water pump and that pressizes all the water, both hot and cold.  You are correct, if the exchanger was bad it would leak.  You would know if that is the case.  Trying to remember, does your cold water get hot just with electric water heater?

rasbury

I'm trying @Dream_Inn to remember the exact installation. And looking at pumps on line, one line in and one out. Somewhere on the out side of the pump I'm not seeing there must be a  "t" for cold water to go to the tank to be heated and then come out and go to the hot water faucets. I'm not understanding what would stop the hot water from backflowing in the system unless there is a checkvalve- i need to get eyeballs on it now that I'm understanding it better-
* when I installed the new pump at home it worked fine. I later in another trip home plugged it in at the house and it seemed to work normally from the right faucets.
*when it does not work, on the water when the engine is warmed, hot scalding water is coming out any of the faucets without the water system turned on. I dont smell any coolant, I don't see the coolant going down. I believe my freshwater tank is about empty. 
I know this is a pretty simple system,  or should be- I'm not getting it obviously!

raybo3

@rasbury Looking at this picture and it doesn't really make sense to me. That 3 way valve doesn't do anything. To bypass the tank you would need another one on the other "T". See if I explain this correctly, if you leave the valve "open" and feeding the heater it would be working fine, however if you turn it and divert the water to the "hot" pipe it going to fill the tank also. There is nothing isolating the heater. That valve like that is useless.

rasbury

@raybo3 I've never turned that valve. Someone told me it would be used to winterize? There was to be a one way valve on the heater- even if that is bleeding into the cold water side, with the pump off where is the pressure coming from?  The filter/strainer is the inlet side..it's strange.

raybo3

So your getting pressure with the shore water off and the pump off?

Dream_Inn

So, I can explain the valve and why there isn’t another one on the other side.  The valve on the cold side is simple.  Either goes into tank or bypasses to go over to the hot side.  I think we all understand that.  Now, let’s say you want to winterize (not sure why Ras would ever want to or even understands that word), leave the water heater full, turn the valve and run pink thru the system.  Water still in the heater tank would keep the pink from back flowing on the hot side.  When done, then you drain water heater for winter.  For Ras, just leave it to flow thru water heater and that should be good.
Now, pressure with no pump on?  If yes, that doesn’t make any sense

rasbury

@Dream_Inn I know what winterize is, that's when  you pull the drain plug out in the winter and then when it is spring I put it back in. Geesh....yes, I don't get it. The only place that the hot water line and the cold water intersect is that valve- maybe it is not sealing but if the pump is not on, where is the pressure coming from? I hate to spend 6/700 bucks or more for nothing!