Purchasing 2006 FV 270

06Rinker270

06Rinker270 said:

During sea trial the captain, hired by broker, ran aground at about 25mph in about 2ft of water, almost came to complete stop.  Ground is very soft but nonetheless, bad. Broker is paying for certified Mercury mechanic to inspect drive/engine system.  Also surveyor is coming out to redo sea trial and inspect the hull.  Asked broker for a year warranty but won't do it.  Please let me know your opinion, not sure what I am going to do but I am reluctant to buy. Thanks 

Once boat was freed, everything seemed to run properly

rasbury

good luck with the boat!  have an 05 with 350, working through some poor maintenance issues from previous owner but did my research on the brand/model and there is nothing else out there I would have bought instead...

raybo3

Michael T everyone knows we should be running non-ethanol. Problem is we cant get it. Nobody carries it where I boat.......... So we have no choice.......

Michael T

That's harsh Ray. I get gas at 5 places in Ontario and 3 places in New Your State. They all carry 90/91 octane. In fact that's all they carry. They call it marine gas or recreational gas. You can't buy ethanol at those marinas - and, of course, we don't want it. MT

TonyWalker

It must be a NY area thing.  On our 6000 mile trip in 2010, NJ (Liberty Marina) was the only place we were stuck using ethonal.  The upside was that we were able to burn it off within a week or two.

Mike_G

My marina (Hideaway, on St. Clair) only has one kind of fuel.. 90 octane, ethanol free.  Not cheap though at $4.99/gallon last time I filled up.  Maybe that has something to do with my boat running so well compared to some others I have heard about.

I have the 2014 260, 350MAG B3, with no generator, no air/heat and no arch.  I saw 45mph on the speedo without fine-tuning the drive/trim tabs.  I didn't want to leave it at WOT for more than 15 or 20 seconds since it only had 10 hours on it at the time.  I know.. bad on me, but I was curious.  Even if I use no trim tabs, I am fully planed in less than 10 seconds for sure.  If I put the tabs down, it comes up a couple of seconds quicker.

I will comment on the beam also.. 8'6" is a little narrow, but I didn't feel that the extra 7 inches was worth another $30K (uh oh... here come the jokes.. lol).  -=Mike G.

Mike_G

Oh.. back on topic..

If it were me, after that "running aground" incident, I would want the boat pulled out of the water to inspect the bottom and the drive.  Even with "soft" ground, there could have been rock or other foreign objects that could gouge the bottom.  If it looks good, and the drive looks good, I would think it's still OK.  The mechanic should be able to tell if anything is "off".  If the Gimbal bearing, prop shaft play and everything looks good and tight, it's fine.

Also.. I would have them flush the drive/cooling system and change the impeller as it probably pushed a bunch of sand through the system.  Probably a good idea to change the impeller anyway on a used boat.  I will be changing mine every season or two (or having it changed if it's a PITA on my model as some have mentioned).  -=Mike G.

Dream_Inn

I sure wish there was non-ethanol gas around here.  I've seen one place about 120 miles south of my marina that had it for about an additional $1.20/gal.  Hard to justify that kind of price even if it were close to my marina.

Cableguy Greg

mikegloomis said:

Oh.. back on topic..

If it were me, after that "running aground" incident, I would want the boat pulled out of the water to inspect the bottom and the drive.  Even with "soft" ground, there could have been rock or other foreign objects that could gouge the bottom.  If it looks good, and the drive looks good, I would think it's still OK.  The mechanic should be able to tell if anything is "off".  If the Gimbal bearing, prop shaft play and everything looks good and tight, it's fine.

Also.. I would have them flush the drive/cooling system and change the impeller as it probably pushed a bunch of sand through the system.  Probably a good idea to change the impeller anyway on a used boat.  I will be changing mine every season or two (or having it changed if it's a PITA on my model as some have mentioned).  -=Mike G.

I agree with Mike. Have the bottom inspected for gouges and have the broker repair any that are there. It should be easy to see where the boat hit bottom. I am amazed that a "captain" didn't know where the shoals are at. I hope that the boat comes back clean for you. It sounds like a nice boat.

raybo3

Micheal T Being harsh?? I am not trying to be harsh but its a reality. We dont have non-ethanol in our area. My yacht club pumps fuel and we cannot get it.   

Michael T

I didn't mean YOU were harsh lol I meant the REALITY of no non-ethanol fuel was harsh. It wasn't personal brother! :-) MT

Michael T

A boat that has run aground at 25 mph (pretty fast for a grounding) can have a lot of internal low grade structural damage. I'd open up and areas I could to see if any bulkheads, cabinetry etc. showed stress cracks where it was affixed to the hull. The flex of the impact can have far reaching effects. I have seen this before. If the broker/seller wouldn't give me a 1 year warranty (in which certain outcomes would be covered) I would run, not walk, away. MT

raybo3

We are good bro............lol

Mike_G

Yeah Michael T... I was thinking because he said there was 2' of water that it would be mostly outdrive drag... of course, that could cause structural issue in the transom so... yeah... I agree, no warranty... no purchase.

Question... do you guys think a surveyor would actually be able to see such "damage"?  Like, let's say on a boat that might have been run in shallow water like this before being put up for sale? -=Mike G.

Michael T

Mike, if someone really wanted to hide damage that wasn't extensive it wouldn't be hard. That said, if someone deliberately lies about an accident there is recourse for the customer. Sellers don't have to tell you the thing they are selling is in cr*p condition but in most jurisdictions they can not legally lie about an accident. About 15 years ago my friend ran his new cruiser (about 20 hours on it) onto a sand bar. He hit it at around 25mph. Everyone went flying. He knew boats well. We opened up all of the obvious spots to look, easy to unscrew hatches and access ports, under bins in the head, front berth and aft berth and looked in the engine bay. There were a lot of stress cracks where bulkheads were glassed to the hull and along the fiberglass to the stringers. He paid about $5,000.00 (which he considered a good deal) to have the areas re-glassed and then epoxy painted. He was a very honest guy. He took before and after pictures and had a surveyor examine it. The surveyor gave it a 100% clean bill of health. Then my friend put it up for sale. Being a real smart salesman he offered any prospective buyer a 50-50 repair offer for two years. He said he figured if the new owner had to put up 50% he/she wouldn't abuse the deal. He proved correct. The boat sold fast and never caused the new owner problems (as far as I heard). He lost about 30K on the deal but said he would never feel right about that boat again and just wanted it sold. He never hit another sand bar. :-). MT

Mike_G

That's a good friend to keep.  It seems to be getting harder and harder to find honest people as time goes on.  I'm not that old (36) but even I see it.

I was mainly wondering if there was some sort of an "x-ray" tool or a scope of some sort that one could "scan" a hull with?  The technology is there... maybe I should patent it! (I'm on record here, nobody try and steal this from me.. lol) -=Mike G.

Michael T

Mike I have seen transducers used by guys who can tell if there has been damage. Otherwise, imo, you would either see the telltale stress cracks or a repaired area and would know. I have seen a number of boats that have been run aground and you can usually spot the repairs easily. The difficult ones are sand and mud groundings where there might not be visible damage but the hull has been twisted. All one can do in that case is to rely on the honesty of the seller. In the case of my friend the boat was brand new and he could have lied but he is not that type of guy.....and like you said its getting rarer. MT

06Rinker270

Tomorrow morning boat is being pulled, inspected and then sea trial.  I like the advice of inspecting internals for stress cracks.  I am leaning towards walking away, especially if I am not getting warranty.  Thanks everyone for the unput.  Survey was going so well, I hope that captain never sea trials another boat. 

Michael T

Good luck 06, follow your instinct. There are other boats if you get a bad feeling. What about this: Ask the seller - are you willing to go 50-50, 40-60 (whatever you feel best with) for a year on any repairs that a third party says are the result of the grounding. In one year you'd know and at least you'd be covered for whatever % you agreed on. If the seller/broker has no fears what have they to lose? If they say no, what are they worried about? Just a thought. Fingers crossed MT

06Rinker270

Michael T said:

Mike I have seen transducers used by guys who can tell if there has been damage. Otherwise, imo, you would either see the telltale stress cracks or a repaired area and would know. I have seen a number of boats that have been run aground and you can usually spot the repairs easily. The difficult ones are sand and mud groundings where there might not be visible damage but the hull has been twisted. All one can do in that case is to rely on the honesty of the seller. In the case of my friend the boat was brand new and he could have lied but he is not that type of guy.....and like you said its getting rarer. MT

Mike, if you were in my shoes, what exactly would you do to make sure you were safe when buying this boat...if you even would anymore.  Thank you. 

06Rinker270

Michael T said:

Good luck 06, follow your instinct. There are other boats if you get a bad feeling. What about this: Ask the seller - are you willing to go 50-50, 40-60 (whatever you feel best with) for a year on any repairs that a third party says are the result of the grounding. In one year you'd know and at least you'd be covered for whatever % you agreed on. If the seller/broker has no fears what have they to lose? If they say no, what are they worried about? Just a thought. Fingers crossed MT

I agree, even if boat passes I need warranty. 

Michael T

06, before I gave-up I'd have a word with the broker/seller. He wants to sell this boat. If he offers some type of warranty that gives you peace of mind what does he have to lose. Ask him - "Do you believe in the quality of this boat? Do you want to sell it?" See what he says. This deal isn't over till you say it is. See what happens. Boats are not easy to sell in this economy - make this guy work for his sale. If he doesn't want to, well that's an answer too I guess. Good Luck 06! MT

06Rinker270

Michael T said:

06, before I gave-up I'd have a word with the broker/seller. He wants to sell this boat. If he offers some type of warranty that gives you peace of mind what does he have to lose. Ask him - "Do you believe in the quality of this boat? Do you want to sell it?" See what he says. This deal isn't over till you say it is. See what happens. Boats are not easy to sell in this economy - make this guy work for his sale. If he doesn't want to, well that's an answer too I guess. Good Luck 06! MT

Thanks man, really appreciate it.  Like you said, plenty of boats. 

Mike_G

So.. 06'.. you said he ran aground and "almost came to a complete stop".  How hard of a slow down was it?  Enough to make you hold onto something if you were standing?  -=Mike G.

06Rinker270

If there are issues that are not found during tomorrow's inspection and sea trial, does everyone believe they will be found within a year?  And on Mikes story, will this affect my resale? 

06Rinker270

mikegloomis said:

So.. 06'.. you said he ran aground and "almost came to a complete stop".  How hard of a slow down was it?  Enough to make you hold onto something if you were standing?  -=Mike G.

Oh yes.  Surveyor was not holding on and almost went into cabin as cabin door was open.  I was lucky enough to be holding on. 

Mike_G

06Rinker270 said:

mikegloomis said:

So.. 06'.. you said he ran aground and "almost came to a complete stop".  How hard of a slow down was it?  Enough to make you hold onto something if you were standing?  -=Mike G.

Oh yes.  Surveyor was not holding on and almost went into cabin as cabin door was open.  I was lucky enough to be holding on. 

GAWD... what a "captain".  -=Mike G.

06Rinker270

Surveyor and mechanic gave everything a clean bill of health.  Impeller was replaced, cooling system flushed, drive pulled and inspected, engine inspected, hull inspected.  According to surveyor you could not tell that the boat hit bottom, no scraping or paint missing from hull or drive, not even a scratch.  They say it was all sand from the looks of it.  Surveyor inspected transom from inside engine room and could not see any stress cracks or anywhere else on the boat.  Waiting to speak to broker yet where I am going to ask for warranty a second time, guarantee I get a no with hopefully a phone call back once he realizes he has no choice after all the money he just lost.  I really appreciate everyones opinion and advice.  Only my second boat, that I own, and obviously running aground at this speed is a first for me.  Thank you everyone. 

MarkB

- Inspect bottom, that will tell you if you hit hard structure.
- Pull drive and check alignment, gimbal, bellows, etc.
- Check transom for any signs of stress cracks (inside and outside), where the drive is mounted through.
- As others indicated, check mounting locations for stress cracks.
- Turn everything on and off (go light, horn, wipers, radio, fridge, TV, stove, microwave, air con, toilet, etc. etc.) and make sure it all works properly. Start with a list of systems on paper, and check them off, all of them.
- Check engine fluid levels (all of them - oil, gear lube, steering fluid, drive fluid, etc). Operate for a minimum of 2hours under load (3500 - 4000 rpm). Check fluids after trail, once boat is cooled off.

If you can get the one year warranty on major issues, that would be great. I would think you would know if something was a problem within 1 year, either through blistering, or mechanical failure.

craigswardmtb

surveyors aren't always the best at locating structural issues.  I would get someone who repairs these kind of issues, at the brokers dime, to inspect the hulls integrity further.