prop antifouling paint

Michael T

@06Rinker 270. Patrick I'm sure whoever did the painting of your drive had the best intentions and was trying to protect your drive. I got a little emotional as I was upset for you and used some strong words that I do not usually use. I am so far from perfect that I should never judge anyone else. That said, I speak the truth when I say have never seen anything like it but I'd be arrogant to believe I should have seen everything! The paint job just goes against everything that I know about painting and maintaining a drive. To me it looks like the product was poorly brushed on, not sprayed or even rolled on.

To answer your questions let's look at where you are right now.

First, will the guy who did this remove the "paint"? Do you think he can?

Second, I doubt that any kind of permanent damage has been done. IMO the paint must/should come off many of the parts - as discussed above. The trick will be to do this in a manner that does not damage your drive. My first inclination would be to get a rotary wire brush to take to the nuts and thread ends and a sander or "sand blaster" using baking soda to the drive. A small hand sander would do the skeg and flat areas.

But a warning: Removing this paint incorrectly could cause some real damage to hoses and seals. The remedy may well involve a number of grades of automotive cloth-backed sand paper and a lot of elbow grease. Maybe a blasting with baking soda on some parts and hand work on others.

Radical thought: Maybe it will turn-out that it is best to just use the drive and let the water action wear the paint off (let Mother Nature do the hard lifting) then you can sand down the remainder and re-do it right!

IMO, to start, you need to know who the manufacturer of the paint was (you may want to contact them for removal directions) and exactly what kind of paint (hard ablative, soft ablative, dual resin and amount and type of biocide etc.) before you begin. Can you find out exactly what was applied?

I'll ask people I trust what to do and we can compare notes. There are a lot of very talented and very smart guys (and gals) on this list and I hope they will provide help.

In the meantime please do not despair. This is a mess for sure but one I believe can be corrected IF you proceed carefully, with a plan. I am sure that little if any damage has been done other than the creation of a mess for you to clean-up.

This will get fixed. To put it in perspective, no one was hurt, you didn't run aground nor did your boat catch fire. In the time it took to paint that drive a lot of other boaters had serious misfortunes.  

Handymans342

06, you have nothing to worry about. I painted my drives with antifoul paint and left the boat in the slip, in the Patuxent river and I had barnacles on every stainless hose and props. The drives looked good. This is standard procedure for the drives. Dont worry 

Michael T

@06Rinker270 I am waiting to talk with a scuba acquaintance who specializes in assessing underwater corrosion and marine growth on large personal yachts and commercial boats. I did just talk with a friend who I consider a coatings specialist who has worked from Hawaii to the Caribbean. He said the picture of your drive was not normal procedure or quality anywhere he had been.

His advice was you need to know what was applied as there are a hundred anti-fouling paints some of which should not be applied over aluminum others not over SS. If they are they can create galvanic corrosion and other damage. He was at a loss to determine why hoses and attachments/fittings (nuts,bolts etc) had been painted as there are specialized coatings (often sprays) for these. As for the props there are specialized coatings that you heat then apply that are expensive but highly effective.

His opinion was that this coating job is a mess and the material (if appropriate for your drive) should have been sprayed on with fittings taped-off. If the material  brushed-on does not have additives that will damage your aluminum, SS, plastic or rubber fittings he was of the opinion to leave it on. Run the boat to see how fast it ablates and check it frequently by swimming down to look at it with a mask and fins to determine the results.

He hoped it would wear off fast allowing you to sand it down and apply a proper treatment properly. I'll let you know what my scuba acquaintance says.

In the end you'll probably have some conflicting advice and just have to "go with your gut!"

P.S. I was just heading out the door when my friend called back. He asked if he had mentioned that the antifouling paint on your drive must not have copper additives or copper biocide agents in it. I told him he had mentioned that concern. He said good as many of them do as an active agent and copper is real bad for aluminum drives - that's why many boatyards leave a physical break between the boat drives and hull bottom coating. he mentioned there were specific spray-on coatings available for aluminum drives.

Michael T

06Rinker07. We just arrived back home there was message from my scuba friend for me. Unfortunately I missed his call and couldn't ask questions but I think he answered what you need to know (IMO). These are his opinions:

1. It looks like a soft ablative anti fouling paint that will probably wear-off quite quickly which he considers good - the faster the better.

2. A hard ablative, dual resin or modified resin composition of the anti fouling would concern him more that a soft ablative as it would stay on much longer. The length of time the paint will adhere is a concern primarily if it has metallic composites (like copper) that are usually  harmful to aluminum drives.

2. Because this paint has been put on aluminum, SS, plastics and rubber you need to determine its chemical composition. Of particular concern is copper-based ablatives that could corrode and pit your aluminum drive housing.

3. He would never put an anti-fouling bottom coat meant for boat hulls on stern drives, pods, V drives or shaft drives as there are a variety of specific sprays and coatings for this at various price points.

4. He would not brush on any anti fouling coating except the ones that are specifically designed to be heated and brushed on, in order to maintain the hydrodynamics of your drive and its efficiency sprays should be used to not only provide a smooth surface but of greater significance to ablate (wear off) evenly - a major consideration of any anti fouling paint applied anywhere on a boat.

5. If there are NOT copper or metallic components to the paint that was applied to your  your drive he does not think you should try to remove the paint as that could cause more damage. The paint on the SS props should wear off first followed by the SS trim hose lines and other SS parts like the trim tabs.

6. If there ARE harmful metal composites in the anti fouling paint you will have to make a decision regarding immediate removal from all aluminum areas. He suggests consulting with the manufacturer and Mercury. 

If the paint is deemed NOT harmful to your drive, then at some point, when enough of this paint has worn-off, you will probably need to  sand your drive. Particular care will have to be taken around your SS hoses, trim senders, trim tab actuators, areas where the drive sections mate, plastic parts and the ends of nuts and threads.

If excessive fouling with barnacles is a common issue in your area any boat yard should know how to proceed. It will probably involve a priming of your drive with a proper primer for aluminum surfaces followed by a choice of either restoring the Mercury lacquer-based paint and then applying a thin film coat of proper anti fouling protection or a full on ablative anti fouling process involving one paint for the drive and a different process for the props and other SS equipment. 

So, Patrick a lot of info. My advice would be: If someone has put on an anti fouling paint whose composition can corrode or pit your aluminum drive you will have a decision to make regarding its removal. If that was the case I would certainly appeal to that person to make it right - IF you felt they were capable of doing so.

However, If it is determined that the anti fouling paint will NOT harm your drive, then I would let most of it wear-off through usage then sand it and re-do it to your standards.

I am sure that this will get resolved and turn-out fine. You have a bunch of information from different guys and you can choose what you think best. Others will probably contribute (hopefully) and I like the idea of consulting Mercury and the paint manufacturer. Maybe they will agree with Steve that everything is just fine. THAT would be great.

Handymans342

Dont worry 06, MT is Anal and he would make love to his drives if he could. LOL

Dream_Inn

Well, I'm late to the discussion (guess I've been boating), but I do agree with MT.  As far as what to do now, I'd say just go with it and let it wear off. Next year, do a good sanding and paint it your self.  Not sure if you can get the paint off the braided lines now.  The props, that really is crazy that anyone would paint SS drives.  In my 15+ years of boat ownership and boating all my life, I've never seen someone paint SS props. I'm not sure I'd ever use them again because of that in itself. At this point, hopefully it will just wear off as well.

Don't get too upset, it's done and really shouldn't hurt anything.

Steve, you finally know the lift life too :-)....nothing better!

Michael T

@ Handymans342 - Steve, you can coat your drives with as much crap as you want because you have diesels. Those of us who have gassers need all the hydrodynamics we can get to save on our gas bills. :-) I could add (in good natured fun) that you can also coat your drives with crap because they can't go fast enough anyway to need good hydrodynamics LOL. 

06Rinker270

So here are the pics of the drive/boat hauled out after being in the water for 3 months in brackish.  I only took boat out a handful of times because I knew gimbal bearing was going bad.  Prop paint is almost completely gone, its fouled(I believe) and paint of the drive has chipped off(Im sure some of it is from the power sprayer).  
The correct paint was used on the drive, I know that on that.  Now I have read all the advice above, both sides, and I am not worried but I want to make it right, just the way I am.  What is your advice on how to proceed from here.  Sand it all off, prime and paint?

@Dream_Inn when I was at your boat I noticed your props are black...is that antifouling?

First two pics are boat immediately out of water, rest are after power wash.



after power wash

LaRea

So, the paint didn't stick to the props - no surprise there.  And the areas where the paint came off are covered in fouling.  It's disappointing to see that the skeg has so much fouling.  Maybe you wore off the paint in shallow water ... or maybe he just did a crappy job with surface prep on the skeg.

What do the other boats in the yard look like?  Is there anybody who has no growth at all?  If so, try to find out what paint they used.  

Barnacles on the props will really hurt performance.  

06Rinker270

I know he used the trilux drive for the props and drive.  What else is there?  What do you use LaRea?  I know you have painted drives, what do they look like after your done?

LaRea

Trilux spray on mine.  It's a very different situation up here in fresh water, but:  At haul-out, I had a light coat of slime, and just a little corrosion around the prop hub.  Nothing on the props except scaling.

Interesting side note: unlike every previous year, my magnesium anodes had almost no corrosion.  Usually they are 50% gone after a season.  The only difference I can think of is that I spent only 4 days in salt water instead of my usual 10-12 days.  (First time in 15 years that I didn't get to spend a week cruising the Bay.)  I didn't think it would a big difference, but maybe I was wrong.

06Rinker270

I used navalloy this year and seem to be roughly 25% gone, only sitting in water from mid August to Mid November.  

If you do have any pictures of your painted drive I would love to see what they look like when its properly done.

LaRea

This was taken last year before launch.  I was starting to get a few little dots of corrosion at seams and edges of the OEM paint, so I sanded and primed/painted with Trilux. This is the primer coat - contrasting color from the paint, so it's easy to see if I miss a spot with the paint.  

06Rinker270

You can really tell the difference, looks fantastic.  Did you spray it on?  Did you cover the bolts with tape or did you just spray over them?

LaRea

Spray cans.  I masked the hull, Mercathode, trim cylinder lines/shafts, and prop shaft.  Didn't mask bolt heads.  Next time I go over, I'll shoot a couple post-season pix.

Dream_Inn

Patrick, I don't use anything but regular merc paint for skeg touchup, but mine are on the lift.  I'd definitely go with the sanding and use a trilux type spray if you can.  Another thing I used to do when I had a boat wet slipped was to use an old towel and go over the prop and drive in shallow water.  I did it quite often and that really helped.  (towel was so you didn't cut your hands)

Michael T

@LaRea, really professional job. It's so nice to see someone looking after their drives. Showed it to the Admiral and the smart *ss said "So, there's another ocd member on the forum?". Trilux definitely for salt water. In fresh I use o.e.m. merc spray and lacquer after sanding with progressively finer grit. Then wash and dry followed by a good coat of carnuba/copolymer wax and buff. Like @DI I use s hand towel to clean them off from time to time while on the hook.....anyway back to @LaRea, that was an awesome job. It shames a bunch of the jokers where I boat who can't see their drives so they don't seem to give a darn. The marina loves them though $$$$$

Handymans342

I just got back from the Ft Myers boat show. I met a salesman who used to sell Rinkers in Indiana. He said he knew of AL. 
I also found an anti foul paint for all Props. Check out www.propspeed.com. Saves fuel too. 

Michael T

My friend used prop speed. It looked nice when it went on but at around $240 for a 1/4 quart he wasn't so impressed. It came off in patches. He then tried prop Armour and liked it better but it was still expensive at about $100 for something like 8 ounces. I know he was going to try Lanocoat next as it was cheaper but I never heard how that worked-out. Trilux 33 does make a spray paint that they say will work on all underwater metals ($40/can). I would imagine it would work great on an aluminum prop but not sure how it would adhere to ss.

Handymans342

The props must be wire brush clean. Then there is a primer. Maybe he didnt prep well enough MT. He also said if the props are stainless and have a mirror finish, that would have to be sanded down to make it a bit rough. Maybe we should patent the glue in Barnacles! They stick to everything!!!

Michael T

Steve you could be right. He is a details guy but the props were SS and I do NOT remember him saying anything about sanding their surface, although you would think it would say so on the coating's directions? There don't seem to be too many easy fixes in our hobby!

06Rinker270

Now that the weather is getting nice I am going to start attacking this issue.  I just read through everyones post again(thank you) and I have some good direction.  You have seen the photos I posted, should I put the boat in the water and let the paint wear itself off and wait until next season?  Or should I tackle this now.  Seems to be a good amount of paint left on.  Although skeg looks like a lot of paint wore off.  

I plan on taking the drives home and getting rid of the paint start fresh.  I am also going to scrape the drive clean from all the growth.  

Thanks for all the help.

Michael T

Agreed,  IMO it is better to not delay this project as deterioration usually accelerates once it begins. 

06Rinker270

@Michael T you posted a lot about letting the paint wear itself off.  Think its best to take it all off now?   Or has enough worn off since August?

Handymans342

I had my drives painted every spring with antifouling paint made for drives. Then I hired a diver to clean the props.

Michael T

06Rknker270,  no  I don't let anything "wear off"  -  I'm waaay too ocd for that,  LOL I have always gone right after anything on the drives. When I see too much slime build-up (we don't get barnacles,  thank God) I put on a mask and snorkel and go for a swim.  I'm on any chips or corrosion like a rat on cheese.  If a chip is tiny I have small craft paint brushes that I can dab primer and then Mercury Phantom Black on. If it's a bigger area I use the automotive type cloth backed sand paper and a foam  sanding blocked that I cut myself depending on the profile of the area.  I have only had to use an electric sander on friend's drives as I never let mine get to that point. So, I clean any crud off so it's not sanded into the drive surface, then  I hand sand with progressively finer grades of cloth backed paper  then I spray some of the primer onto a paint specialty cheese cloth to tack  rag the area. An old paint pro told me to make a tack rag using the next paint to follow to avoid product mismatch. Then I spray from the can or a small spray gun  -  but usually directly from the OEM Mercury spray can,   several coats of primer -  on a full skeg job more like  four coats.  Then a light buff with a very fine paper like 800 or 1000. Then I tack rag again this time using the Mercury Phantom Black that will be sprayed next. Small job would be 2 or so coats a large job would be 4 or more coats.  Let dry as long as 48 hours depending on the humidity.  Then I lighty wash the drive with cold water to set the paint, dry it very,  very carefully with a soft towel and let it sit for 24 hours.  Then I hand apply and buff a liberal coat of Maguire's Flagship Carnauba Wax. OCD behaviour - no question,  but everyone asks if my drives are brand new even after years of use. You don't have to go nuts like me LOL but if you get after small chips and corrosion early it will really help your drives longevity and simplify your life. Good luck with your project! 

06Rinker270

So I have decided to sand down the paint where its coming off and repaint.  Next season I will do it properly when it comes out of the water.  Life is just too darn busy right now.  

My plan is to:

1 - Mask off mercathode, trim cylinders, prop shaft(if necessary

2 - scrape off fouling with puddy knife(bad idea to use puddy knife?)

3 - wet sand with 80 grit sandpaper all the areas that the paint has worn away.    

4 - apply two coats of primer, then two coat of antifouling drive paint

5 - take off props and clean off paint

Questions:

Is it ok to apply primer over the existing black top coat?

After I sand, should I wipe down with trilux 333 brushing liquid?  I see MT said tack rag, maybe thats all I need.  I know trilux 333 has a purpose too.

Is it ok to use the spray can paint on top of the brushed on paint.

Heck when I look at it now I might as well just go all the way and get it all off.  Those small nicks and crannies look like hours and hours of sanding.

Appreciate the help.

06Rinker270

For anyone still following my long drawn out paint job I decided to go for the whole thing and repaint.  Once I got up close and personal I really saw how horrible the paint job was.  It was just slopped on without any care.  Really look some sanding in some areas to get the paint smooth.  Boat was only in water with new drive paint from aug-nov and still a ton of paint came off during that time.  Anyways, I have an after sanding pic and after first round of primer.  Sanding phot doesn't show how much sanding I actually did.  Wish it was smoother but it's going to take a few paints jobs to get all that crap off.  I only got to the lower unit.  Any criticism is welcome.  I think it's a big step up from where it was.  

Handymans342

Nice

raybo3

Looks great........ Good job.