so, my fruits of the days work...

rasbury

I really try to be positive. I'm sitting in my boat in the front yard. It has cooled of to a sunny 75 degrees...brrrr. I have a strong cocktail in my hand and I'm done for the day. So, yesterday I got my new exhaust elbows installed...just about had a disaster by not installing the gaskets the way some well intended person said to. Thank goodness one of them I had not removed which sent me investigating and was resolved. Installed my new reservoir for the out drive (don't ask please), the wires were to short so had to improvise that one. The only thing not resolved on the motor, the two fittings on the exhaust elbow for the water hoses are just not coming out so I will order some new ones, no big deal. Next on my list was to install the steering which was no big deal, still have to tidy that up a bit. I bag stuff up as it comes apart, I had one of the bend tab things in a bag with a nut and two washers...no clue where they go. I'm going to post some pics of a couple of wires I'm not sure where they go later. A couple I'm sure go to the starter, one from the mercathode block on the transom must be a ground that goes to the coupler housing. A positive and ground to the trim pump... So,,,,,not to bad eh? Now the bad news. My friggin trailer. So, my son in law gave four take off tires and wheels that came from is 300 grand fishing boat that was cryin for some aluminum wheels. I put them on. On the way to the ramp for one of my recent dunk tests for leaking, one of them came apart. The brake seemed to be locked so I pulled it off and put my spare on. When I picked up the boat today, when I got next to buildings going down the road, I could hear just an awful noise- thought I had another flat or tire comin apart. Pulled down a street, found it was a dead end and after looking things over had to back out on a busy highway by myself, that was very exciting! So, nearing the end of the day, figured I'd jack up the wheels to see if I had brake issues...all the bearings were recently replaced. I get to the third wheel, when it came off the ground it had some wiggle to it...my heart sank as I started looking at the lugs on the wheel. One of the studs was sheared off. A few of the others studs are spinning on the hub. One or two looked intact. So, I guess when I put that wheel on when I tightened it up, it must not have been up against the hub or something? So, to save the cost of a hub, once I cut these lugs off, can I tack some new studs in the hub? I know if I have any future issues I will have to replace. I was trying to schedule the motor to be put in this week...I'm really trying to be positive...

212rowboat

There will be no tacking, sir.  The other end of the stud has splines which fit in the hubs backside. They have slight taper so you tap them in with a hammer .The hub has to come off, bit its fairly straight forward and easy... Heat is your friend, and map over propane of possible... Heat them by focussing flame on center of back of stud, flip hub over and whack threaded side stud end with hammer... Flip back over looking inside bowl of hub, slip new stud in hole and tap it home... 

Don't use cheap Chinese made studs.  Get good american made replacements.  I cant recall and you may want to Google it, but akin to grade 5 or 8 bolts, the ticks on face of splined end mean something... Iirc you want the one with three half ticks on it, not the ones with dots or with 5 ticks... 

212rowboat

You DO want FIVE tics on face. I was wrong above .

rasbury

@212rowboat some of the studs are turning, like stripped out, won't that mean that a new one would also or is it the stud that strips? The ones that are spinning so they have the nuts still on. They are very clean and the nuts are not frozen on them...just don't see how they will part with each other unless I cut them off!

reneechris14

Take hub of with the tire on and cut the back side maybe easier.

rasbury

dang, your at it early! Did not think of that....maybe with some weight against the stud the nut will come off, threads are very clean. Pesky work today so will work on it this evening...if I don't get the motor back in over the next couple of weeks it will become next years resolution...

Dream_Inn

reneechris14 said:

Take hub of with the tire on and cut the back side maybe easier.

Good thinking so early in the morning!

We're all counting on you Ras!  We gotta see some great pictures this winter of you boating!  (Cause you won't see any from up North)

212rowboat

rasbury said:

@212rowboat some of the studs are turning, like stripped out, won't that mean that a new one would also or is it the stud that strips? The ones that are spinning so they have the nuts still on. They are very clean and the nuts are not frozen on them...just don't see how they will part with each other unless I cut them off!

studs are usually softer metal on the splines so the stud gives and not the hub... you may do well to use wd40 on the spline bosses and then blow it out with air gun on compressor to clear any metal shavings/debris from the boss before you tap the new studs in. 

nhsd

You can get a lug nut splitter like the one below. I had a similar issue and had to split the nut off the stud. Then just knocked the stud out. They sell new studs that are slightly bigger than the original so that they set nicely into the hub. You may want to consider that.

aero3113

WoW, never knew that tool existed. Might come in handy some day.

reneechris14

Nut splitter, don't tell my wife

rasbury

well, last time I did this when I first bought the boat, I took a grinder and just cut a slot in them and beat the **** out of them until the nut also came apart...got one off this evening and almost one more so considering one broke off on its own, down to about half. Hopefully can get home a little earlier, ran out of steam this evening. It is very puzzling however- those wheels have been off and on so much, you could spin the nuts by hand. I first cut a slot in the stud thinking the nuts were on there loose and with a screwdriver and a wrench could break the nut loose that way- no way. Also thought with some weight on the wheel it would also hold the stud and back off the nuts- no way. So, it seems that the nuts were not loose to cause this problem to start with so I'm very puzzled as to how these come to start turning to start with and one broke off on it's own. It just makes no sense.....I have heard of the nut splitter and might see if the local harbor freight has one- maybe with grinding a slot if need be to those hardened lugs it might just split them apart pretty easy. I did this once before and put in new studs. The hub is fine otherwise and recently put in new bearings and races all around. Puzzled. What caused all of these to come loose and turn all of a sudden...and just on this one wheel? I really don't need this!

dalek

Are they lug nuts with a closed end? You may find that the stud is bottoming in the nut before the wheel is tight.

rasbury

No, its a regular lug...i am always really careful with mounting wheels...its like I over tightened them and spun them...I use a regular wrench....i dunno...and one broke off.

dalek

I feel for you. I recently had to remove an alloy wheel from the front of my car with a disc cutter, due to one spinning stud.

212rowboat

if those lugs were the previously mentioned chinese flavor ones, they are an accident waiting to happen.   I honestly don't know how they manage to stay on the market.  

I've seen people turn some masterful wheel hub adapters using ,high grade aluminum as well as straight stainless, and even billet steel as well, and then plop those studs in- everyone blames the adapter and harmonics for the failure, and it's not- it's the stud itself.  This is why i was adamant for using "American Made" steel for that purpose.  There is NO comparison for American Steel for this (and many more ) applications.  

As far as the cause- if those ARE American Steel lugs, the only three causes that are associated with that type of failure is torque on the lug itself (I think it calls for 175# in feet), the wheel's hub.... which leads me to ask: are these wheels spoke style or the ones with holes in them?  Both are guilty of this, but the spoked variety seems to be more prevalent and guilty of this-  the basic concept is they push in and out, flexing, and 'wafering' the steel itself when it happens, which allows for even more flex.  When they start flexing, it's time for a new wheel.  Cast (or spun) aluminum doesn't do this.  I've never met a steel wheel that didn't, over time and being assisted by salt- some attribute it to heat generated and then dunking in water, but i dunno....  When road noise is introduced and the vibrations turn into harmonics, the steel around the lugs and from the hub to the beginning of the spoke vibrate, and the lug nuts loosen.   The third cause is the lug nuts themselves, and is generally folks using hub centric lugs on lug centric wheels, or vice versa.. (one is flat, one has acorn base- one holds by hanging the wheel off the hub which has a tight tolerance to the wheels inset, and the other relies on clamping power and the 'acorn' lug nut centering the lug and aligning the wheel- both are sufficient, it's just you can't mix them unless you're using both wheel AND hub centric setups, which isn't that common)... Also, and still discussing lug nuts, ALL of them should have a slight taper (which is where the Chinese goof in addition to using lessor steel) which allows the threads to really latch on and stretch the lug threads (at proper torque) and become almost as efficient as solid steel studs holding that wheel on... 

rasbury

the wheels are steel, they do not have spokes and have the holes which I understand are at the bottom of the pecking order...they are however new....they came off a trailer from my son n laws boat when he first bought it. Much better shape than the ones I pulled off that's for sure....what is weird and it is hard to describe, the wheel seemed to be loose more side to side than the lugs backing off and being able to rock it- which I'm sure makes no sense. All the other wheels I think I replaced with the same studs and all the other wheels and tires came off said trailer and they all seem to be fine at this point. I'm a novice at this no question but generally mechanical and I'm quite puzzled....the studs themselves have a little in and out to them while the lugs seem to be locked on and the studs spin FREELY when there is no weight on them.....I have driven maybe 25 miles tops on the "new" tires and wheels. I would say I did not have 175 lbs. of torque on them and surprised that that number is that high. I would think that would spin the lugs! 

212rowboat

yeah man, something is wrong... i've no clue what, but this thing shouldn't happen unless there was something wrong somewhere.  

rasbury

so, after two evenings of grinding and pounding, the wheel and hub are off. So....did the stud stretch and loosen and then mess up the wheel? I did not take a picture of the wheels but the holes are rather wallered out,and probable just need to toss the wheel. The puzzle to me is, when I brought the boat home, I had to pretty much cut off the studs and replace all of them in the hubs. So why did this happen to just this one wheel? If you look at the pictures of the back side of the hub, where the stud head rest, some of the holes seem to have a shoulder, one does not...so did the stud pull through a bit more with weight on the tire and get loose and then set up the problem? If so, again, why only this one wheel???

rasbury

The only reasonable explanation is I did not double check and make sure that wheel was torqued down when I changed them all out.

Dream_Inn

I agree Ras that really the only explanation is that they were not all torqued down.  Sorry you are going thru so much hassle with the boat and trailer.

212rowboat

i'm thinking you've got cross matched hubs and studs- likely inherited.  

those bosses aren't splined.  they are tapered.  are the studs used splined or tapered?  newer hubs are splined almost exclusively, but in all honesty the studs usually last the life of the hub.  I've literally seen cars with drum rear brakes from the forties, all restored in their former glory and the hubs and studs remain OE...

i've also seen cars from the fifties with working brake light switches, turn signals, and windshield wiper switches still functional after all this time too- as if we forgot how to make them or something, and chose to use plastic doo-hickies instead nowadays in our 'planned obsolescence' or 'engineered to fail' mentality of today with intent to double whammy consumers- which would be my primary complaint to legislators to remedy if there weren't obviously 1000's of other more pressing matters to attend (and here is where i digress, as it really doesn't matter here and really tweaks me anyway)....  

so anyway.... 

as i see it you have two choices to make this right, and right is the only choice to keep you and your family safe, as well as those driving around you while you tow:

get new hubs and wheels.  or.  get new wheels and hubs.  

the mention of stud/hubs above, being good after 'all these years', is to introduce the idea that they don't have to be 'brand new' (as in a pick and pull project), but they should never have been separated.  

rasbury

So, holidays are over and I had to both back home. I got my new radiator cap and installed and the motor is purring right a long. Engine temp steady at 175, a little lower than normal. I'm noot getting good readings on my volt gauge on the dash....showing about 11...was not an issues before.  Check with meter at the battery and get the same ..could I have hooked up the wires wrong? Hot on top and a ground on the bottom?

rasbury

Never mind...harness wire harness on back of alternator was not plugged in lol...14 volts now....

rasbury

So, to finish the motor, I need to re install the blower vent hose.....it was all rotted out so will measure and see if STD dryer vent is the same size..so is it the one hose to the blower and then a hose short piece from the blower to the bottom of the bielge?

Liberty44140

But don’t use dryer vent in the binge, I’ve read here and elsewhere that’s a no no. I’ve posted somewhere here a great price on bulge blower duct 

Handymans342

This is a never ending story!!! OMG

rasbury

First of all , @Handymanseould 342 is on full ignore, no longer a rinker owner. And @Liberty44140 I would swear that was what easin there assuming the diameter is correct- it was pretty much crap. So for now if it fits it's better than nothing....so is it just the one piece? I have four vents, only makes sense there would be one hose for the blower and the other three vents are just vents...?

Liberty44140

In my 342 I have one blower on each side. A hose goes from each side of the bilge up to a blower and then from the blower out the vent. Then there are two intake vents which didn’t have hoses but I added intake hoses to help keep rainwater off the generator and batteries. Lastly there are two hoses from the shelf in the rear of the engine room up to the rear storage compartment under the seat. These have no blower attached. Not sure if this helps but I hope it does.

Willhound

@rasbury 4" dryer vent is the same size. But can be eaten by fumes, oil etc which is why not recommended. But lots of people do. On my 270 there is a single blower on the port side with hose attached and another hose on the starboard side for return air. The blower hose should sit as low in the bilge as possible without sucking up water etc. while the other side sits a little higher I think to create more draft. And the other two vents, one on each side are open to vent the upper regions.

rasbury

@Willhound maybe that's why what I had decenterated...it was white film over sprialed metal but I went to both big box stores with no luck- so will check at West Marine here in a bit and see if they have it- seems like l looked before. I'm more worried about the shift cable, I can blow enough air in there with the hatch open and s fan if need be. I would really like to spend New year's Eve on the boat- might be primative, dirty boat but it sure would be nice!