The lets talk about boat noises and I/O pontoons thread :)

J3ff

Have a NEW noise - holy cow - this boat must be cursed, anyone want a free rinker 270? 

New drive in, seems to be running great, 3rd or 4th time out, the clicking noise (sounds like a helicopter) is back! Mechanics best guess is Rideplate.. can't find any videos with anyone talking about it. Just gimbal noises and ujoints.  Gimbal and alignment were done when the new drive was put on. About ready to call uncle.

Dream_Inn

I don't believe I've ever seen a Rinker with a ride plate.  Him, maybe I'm thinking wrong, but maybe that is the wrong term.

Dude, you are making my boating luck over the last 8 years start to feel a little better.  Sorry to hear about it.  Please let us know what is meant by tide plate.

J3ff

Those were the mechanics words. Guess maybe he meant the metal part of the coupler 

MiamiAG

Sorry to hear that, Jeff. If it makes you feel any better, I'm competing with you with a 2013 290. I think in a few years I will have replaced everything on the boat except for the hull and it still may be leaking somewhere.

I don't mean to hate on Rinker because a lot of the problems were my ignorance but...

J3ff

Ha ha, true! 

The noise is a weird one, it ONLY HAPPENS in neutral, it will sometimes be evident when everything is cold, other times it isn't there when cold. If I motor slowly somewhere, say 5-10mph, and shift into N it will be there and it'll be loud. If I run it up on plane and stay up for more than 5-10mins, everything is nice and hot and when you shift into N usually there is no noise. Once sitting there for a few hours, start it up and BAM the noise is back, assuming it's all cold again.

One other NEW thing I noticed after the new drive is that I can hear a CLUNK when lifting and lowering the drive, it doesn't happen every time, but it's happened enough that I notice it and listen for it. 

Going to try and get some video of it. 

This boat has had 2 new gimbal bearings in the last 12 months. The weird thing is that it is perfectly quiet for the first 3 or so trips... but then the noise shows up again.

Mechanic says he's aligned it... Part of me wants to pull it out, pull the drive out and double check it, but the guy is a good guy, have to consider other things.

If I do pull it out, how do you guys get the drive off the boat without dropping it ?

J3ff

MiamiAG said:

Sorry to hear that, Jeff. If it makes you feel any better, I'm competing with you with a 2013 290. I think in a few years I will have replaced everything on the boat except for the hull and it still may be leaking somewhere.

I don't mean to hate on Rinker because a lot of the problems were my ignorance but...

I have NEVER had such problems with a boat. I wonder if it's just too much boat for a single engine and drivetrain... 

aero3113

Just remember engine issues, transom assembly and drive issues aren’t Rinker’s fault. Leaks because of a bad sealing job or wrong sealant, yes shame on Rinker.

Handymans342

I hope you guys wake up one day that a boat and the spending necessary to maintain it is not worth the pleasure you get from it unless you are financially well off. 

YYZRC

The issues could be Rinker’s fault if the hull geometry wasn’t correct for the powertrain to function properly. I’m not saying that’s the case here but some cars are lemons and maybe some boats too!

aero3113

@Handymans342 , before you bought your RV, when did you buy your first boat?

J3ff

I'm going to use it as a weekend apartment for a bit.. will have to build up my boat bucks account for a few months before it can have the engine pulled again. 

YYZRC

Handymans342 said:

I hope you guys wake up one day that a boat and the spending necessary to maintain it is not worth the pleasure you get from it unless you are financially well off. 

If not for the boat, I would be in an asylum right now. 

J3ff

YYZRC said:

Handymans342 said:

I hope you guys wake up one day that a boat and the spending necessary to maintain it is not worth the pleasure you get from it unless you are financially well off. 

If not for the boat, I would be in an asylum right now. 

This is true over here too. I have a tiny place to live in... if there was no way to get out for half a day here and there for the last few months I'd be going crazy. 

212rowboat

Jack plate? Like an outboard? Is he talking about your gimbal ring? 

Unless a stencil is used those gimbals are not perfectly uniform on transoms, and that is ALL on rinker... but i couldn't imagine they wouldn't use one... an 1/8th in matters... could be difference in alignment parameters with one boat eating bearings and another not... 

Add some grease to the gimbal... does it lessen the whoosh of helicopters bit it comes back? 

I bet the guy installed one of those bad runs of bearings... I'd wager on that, actually.  Did he turn the engine during alignment? 

Its been my experience aligning is like tuning a guitar... always tune by tightening the strings not loosening... the strings can grip on the bridge or nut and lose tune as soon as you start to play... same with aligning in that LIFTING the engine is foolproof... going past lift and dropping it down on the mount posts may allow the engine to hang up and not rest firmly on the base of the post.  But it will "fall" after running a little whether the top nut was tight or not prior, and fall enough to lose the perfect alignment you want.... 

A somewhat decent way to discover this?  Check the torque on the top nut and see if it spins easy... it shouldnt... if it does the engine may have been aligned "falling" instead of "rising", and it fell that distance to the seat after use..... and out of alignment.... and ate another gimbal bearing.... and even if that bearing was one of the 'good' ones.   

Handymans342

aero3113 said:

@Handymans342 , before you bought your RV, when did you buy your first boat?

I bought my first boat in 1984. It was a 16 foot Renken. Then the kids came along and we got our first RV in 1988. I didn’t get another boat till 1992. A 26 foot Stamas fishing boat. I got my first invoice nightmare with hauling out, storage, winterization, etc. Sold it in 2 years. Then back to RV again with a motor home. Didn’t get another boat till 2002 I got a project boat with a 1976 32 foot Trojan. Another mistake. Gone in 2 years. Then my 342 in 2013. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result LOL

YYZRC

What are the potential implications of just “living with” the noises? What’s the worst case outcome of a gimbal bearing failure?

J3ff

212rowboat said:

A somewhat decent way to discover this?  Check the torque on the top nut and see if it spins easy... it shouldnt... if it does the engine may have been aligned "falling" instead of "rising", and it fell that distance to the seat after use..... and out of alignment.... and ate another gimbal bearing.... and even if that bearing was one of the 'good' ones.   

Will check that first. Thanks man. Going to figure out how to get a good recording and will post. 

aero3113

@Handymans342  It’s funny how you kept going  back to a boat. It’s in your blood! There will be another one soon in your backyard on your lift! LoL

J3ff

I don't understand why it took 3 or 4 rides out after each new bearing was installed. I would have heard it RIGHT AWAY this last time, I was listening closely for noise with the new drive.  If it had anything to do with the coupler wouldn't this have showed up and stayed.  Also weird that it seems to be temperature dependent. With new gimbal bearing #1, it would only do it when it was HOT and in N. This one does it when it's cold sometimes and sometimes it doesn't.  

In my mind this points to bad alignment that's destroying G bearings, but what do I know. 

212rowboat

YYZRC said:

What are the potential implications of just “living with” the noises? What’s the worst case outcome of a gimbal bearing failure?

Unless there is an all woman bikini clad coast guard auxiliary,  sinking is no Bueno.  :-) 

If it grenades all between you and the pond you sit is the bellow and bilge pump, and the bellow is in peril with chunks of metal flying about in a confined area.  That cordov... uh, cordevo... uh.. dang it that double hinged ujoint gizmo will slap about like a hammer destroying everything in its vicinity.  

YYZRC

Well, that would suck!!

212rowboat

J3ff said:

I don't understand why it took 3 or 4 rides out after each new bearing was installed. I would have heard it RIGHT AWAY this last time, I was listening closely for noise with the new drive.  If it had anything to do with the coupler wouldn't this have showed up and stayed.  Also weird that it seems to be temperature dependent. With new gimbal bearing #1, it would only do it when it was HOT and in N. This one does it when it's cold sometimes and sometimes it doesn't.  

In my mind this points to bad alignment that's destroying G bearings, but what do I know. 

Think it through... 

The drive is turning all the way down to the lower foot in gear or neutral... unloaded (neutral) there is no resistance,  or little resistance... when in gear the shaft is held firmly against one side allowing a theoretical gap on the other (really just unloaded)... even in perfect alignment this load unload happens but its more pronounced out of alignment... really squashing one side and really reducing load on the other... the internal grease is pushed around from side to side, heating one side as its squashed and grease escapes, and not redistributing to the other side as it isnt loaded.... one side has flattened bearings in no time... the other picks up the shrapenal from those flats.  How long until heat and shrapnel cut the seal?  

Maybe it redistributes when cold because its not ready to fail yet... maybe as it heats those flattened bearings void get some grease between them and their walls until you start that heat cycle and redistribution again... 

All the while, equal load, "quench" if you would, allows all parts to be happy and not complain.  And last a long time.  

Check your max trim measurement eye to eye... running too much trim will eat those things too. 

J3ff

Well I will tell you this, the water is skinny at my current dock - moving to a new one in Sept. so there is a LOT of running the drive when it is not all the way down. At the mouth of canal there's a ROCK in the middle of it. I have to get the drive up pretty high, but usually throw it in N, lift the drive, cost over the rock, then put it down and shift back into D... maybe this is the mystery of why it  takes 3 times.

aero3113

@J3ff , even in neutral your shaft and universal joint are spinning. This could be the cause.

J3ff

aero3113 said:

@J3ff , even in neutral your shaft and universal joint are spinning. This could be the cause.

Yeah - def. aware of this, but I've tried to not put it in gear or lift it super high... it's only for 5-10 seconds a time, but it is TWO times each time I go out. 

Black_Diamond

With the assumption the bearing is installed into the housing with proper fits, usually line-to-line to .001” interference and correct shaft fit, the internal radial clearance between the balls (in this case) and the races is in the few .0001” range. You will not unload the balls with any radial load within its ratings which is likely far beyond the radial loads it should ever see if installed correct. Ball/roller bearings actually need very little lubrication. A sealed ball bearing is typically 30% filled with grease. Over pack it and it will over heat presto if it cannot get out of the way.  Bearings at 30,000rpm only need a mist. 

I’ve set angular contact bearings with over 4,000 lbs of axial preload and they will spin at 4,000 rpms for years. 

Misalignment and poor installation practices are the top bearing killers if they fail in short order. Then lubrication and contamination issues. 

As for that clunk sound when raising/lowering the drive, make sure they put the half-moon looking spacer in where the pin that connects to the rams goes. It fits between the pin and the drive where it goes thru. The spacer should be aft of the pin too. 

Handymans342

aero3113 said:

@Handymans342  It’s funny how you kept going  back to a boat. It’s in your blood! There will be another one soon in your backyard on your lift! LoL

That house is sold. Live in RV now fulltime

aero3113

Oh, wow. Then you’ll be towing one around soon off the back of the RV. LoL, ⚓️😎

J3ff

Did not see any spacer @Black_Diamond - this is what it looked like after they were done with it. 

reneechris14

Handymans342 said:

aero3113 said:

@Handymans342  It’s funny how you kept going  back to a boat. It’s in your blood! There will be another one soon in your backyard on your lift! LoL

That house is sold. Live in RV now fulltime

How I'm I to visit now in November??

YYZRC

I believe the spacer is here: