The lets talk about boat noises and I/O pontoons thread :)

212rowboat

Black_Diamond said:

With the assumption the bearing is installed into the housing with proper fits, usually line-to-line to .001” interference and correct shaft fit, the internal radial clearance between the balls (in this case) and the races is in the few .0001” range. You will not unload the balls with any radial load within its ratings which is likely far beyond the radial loads it should ever see if installed correct. Ball/roller bearings actually need very little lubrication. A sealed ball bearing is typically 30% filled with grease. Over pack it and it will over heat presto if it cannot get out of the way.  Bearings at 30,000rpm only need a mist. 

I’ve set angular contact bearings with over 4,000 lbs of axial preload and they will spin at 4,000 rpms for years. 

Misalignment and poor installation practices are the top bearing killers if they fail in short order. Then lubrication and contamination issues. 

As for that clunk sound when raising/lowering the drive, make sure they put the half-moon looking spacer in where the pin that connects to the rams goes. It fits between the pin and the drive where it goes thru. The spacer should be aft of the pin too. 

i don't know near enough to argue with any of that, and have enough sense not to tackle someone who has me clearly outclassed in such matters- but....

when i place an alignment rod through the bearing and push either down or up on the bitter end, or to either side- i can visibly see the bearing accommodating (or trying to) the altering angle... that is what i speak of loading and unloading. 

J3ff

Why would it get quiet when it heats up? I'm going to have to wait till I get moved to the new dock that actually has deep water... I swear people in the keys have no idea what they are talking about when they say "deep water dockage" ....  

Black_Diamond

Looks like it is in and correct from the drive position.  It is hid between the ram mount ends. Pop off one ram and at the drive and you should see it. Looks like a 1/4 moon shape. Yellow-whitish color plastic part. 

https://nuwavemarine.com/oem-mercruiser-bravo-trim-limit-spacer-insert-808006/

Black_Diamond

@212rowboat. You will see the movement you describe. Most of that is axial internal bearing play and with the alignment tool length will give you some motion. A standard ball bearing will have ~10x the axial play Vs radial <—- after install. They are looser out of the box. 

 

J3ff

Alswagg said:

Verify the correct gimble bearing was installed.  Sounds like a typical bearing problem when incorrect version is used   

Funny you say that, I of course bought the cheap version before I saw your post about it. I called him up and said "please buy the expensive sealed version, I don't care about extra charges and install that" - I wonder which one was installed. This could mean that the 1st NEW bearing installed was also the incorrect one, because that guy was a little out of what he usually does. 

Before anything else is done I'm going to either swap it myself or find someone else to do it. The correct version is a sealed bearing for 100 bucks, correct ?

PickleRick

Out of curiosity, no one had tired to grease the new sealed bearing have they? The oem sealed bearing come with a stainless set screw to remove the grease zerk and close off the port.

Also did he install it properly? I.e. hit it with an properly oversized socket or correct bearing driver tool so the outside bearing housing takes the impact and not the bearing shield or inner race.  Some guys use a huge pipe that fits the outer race. 

The guy who installs it with a 2x4 is usually the one doing the damage.  

Bearings dont take well to getting hit in the face.

Dream_Inn

Black_Diamond said:

As for that clunk sound when raising/lowering the drive, make sure they put the half-moon looking spacer in where the pin that connects to the rams goes. It fits between the pin and the drive where it goes thru. The spacer should be aft of the pin too. 

I believe my spacer in fwd of the pin, allowing the drive to tuck in more.  I could be wrong, but it kind of looks that way.  Is it different for a Bravo-2?  actually, I'll post pictures when I get back to my phone, I have them of both my B-2 and of my buddies B-3 drives (both on 400s).

reneechris14

Dream_Inn said:

Black_Diamond said:

As for that clunk sound when raising/lowering the drive, make sure they put the half-moon looking spacer in where the pin that connects to the rams goes. It fits between the pin and the drive where it goes thru. The spacer should be aft of the pin too. 

I believe my spacer in fwd of the pin, allowing the drive to tuck in more.  I could be wrong, but it kind of looks that way.  Is it different for a Bravo-2?  actually, I'll post pictures when I get back to my phone, I have them of both my B-2 and of my buddies B-3 drives (both on 400s).

Yes B1 and B2 have the pin aft and B3 has the pin in the forward position. I have mine (bravo3) like the Bravo 1 and 2 it does help to get on plane, also when I trim up when going I'm getting about a one thousand one one thousand two before I can hear cavitation.

Dream_Inn

Here is a pic of where mine is on a B-2



Here is where it is on another 400 with B-3 drives



To me, they both look to have the pin in the same spot.  Is the space fwd of pin?

MarkB

Handymans342 said:

I hope you guys wake up one day that a boat and the spending necessary to maintain it is not worth the pleasure you get from it unless you are financially well off. 

I'd add, financially well off enough to have someone else maintain it, so you can just show up with 5 bikini girls and a few bottles of rum and have fun. LOL. Except for me, I am married, and I love my wife, and I would only need her, and a bottle of wine ... as long as someone else maintained the boat! LOL.

PickleRick

Handy makes it out like only trust fund babies should own boats.

Some one should have relayed that info to my blue collar Irish Catholic working class family several generations ago.  

J3ff

PickleRick said:

Handy makes it out like only trust fund babies should own boats.

Some one should have relayed that info to my blue collar Irish Catholic working class family several generations ago.  

I'm out of my league with this boat, but at least I know it! Have always replaced things with BETTER versions of what it had (Replaced a 350 raw water cooled, with a 383 closed cooling, better AC, better drive, etc...etc...), wish I had known what a seacore was when I got the new motor! If the storms start winding up like everyone says they are going to, I may just pull it for sept and Oct, go through it all slowly, get the thing running great....use it for the winter and then throw it on the market in the Spring.. then it's something a little more manageable. 

212rowboat

there aren't a whole lot of things you can live on that take a beating a boat does... it's definitely a labor of love.... no sooner you fix one thing you discover another- and then there is preventive maintenance. 

today was the very first time this season i pulled my boat in and didn't experience an issue... i've cut raw water hoses with the belt and the harmonic balancer- that's two different cuts and two different patches.  i blew a power steering return line- which was exciting at 45mph and six other people on the boat- thank God i had a firm grip on the wheel when that happened... it wanted to walk left... i was drifting once this year- something i rarely do, and drifted right up on a sand bar... sucked a bunch of sand into the system and had to clear it- triggering a high temp alarm (but never broke 190, it's closed loop cooling)... i swapped the impeller 'just in case' but it was fine.  i lost a buddy bearing cap off the trailer- and would have put money down someone relieved me of it, seeing as how it was brand new... just to have the same wheel pop another off, and realizing the hub is cracked.  i broke a steering cable- fortunately while still on the trailer... i had a wiring issue at the dash that drove me almost to the edge- and i decided to break every single connection and redo it... and left myself a winter project of re-harnessing everything.. i've swapped a horn and rewired a new radio... new stereo and amps... i've had issue with misadjusted shift cables and throttle cable... i had a leaking thermostat neck (where the closed cooling system taps in, not the four way)... i went as far as to have a placement marked and drill in hand ready to install a new sea pump, but decided to give the foot pump one more try (with new impeller).. i've sewed cushions, and need to sew some more... i've installed an aft rope and anchor locker... i've played the prop game with the new power... i've serviced trim cylinders and pump, set trim limits, set trim sender (new sender 'disk' instead of entire new sender)... I've installed a new gimbal bearing, aligned, new bellows, and serviced the outdrive (also new- an SEI Ag2 in 1.62:1)... i've set/adjusted timing, adjusted a:f on carb, installed new batteries and battery switch....................

and i have likely 40 hours total run time on the boat. 

and my boat is just a 212 bow rider... lacks all the creature comforts or complicated systems most of your floaters have.  

this doesn't include washing, polishing, waxing... there is at least 60 hours spent there.. 

and i've loved every second. 

like riding a motorcycle, either a boat is in your blood or it isn't.  both are in mine.  they can be frustrating, but they are worth every minute of that. 

davidbrooks

@212rowboat well said. The appreciation for the water and the work that goes along with it are goals that i hope to pass down to my kids. Cause with a boat they sure arent getting any money.

J3ff

davidbrooks said:

@212rowboat well said. The appreciation for the water and the work that goes along with it are goals that i hope to pass down to my kids. Cause with a boat they sure arent getting any money.

Yup! I will say that moving to a place where the water is always warm is taking some getting used to. Usually the plan is spending lots of fun weekends wrking on the boat over the winter... I used to "camp" out on it during the day at the marina, in any weather, snow storms were fun...just getting some projects done in the morning and then visitng friends after those were done. Down here it feels weird to think about pulling the boat out for "winter" prep, where it can go back in at anytime. 

Handymans342

LOL

J3ff

Here's the noise - only when cold and also in neutral.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/VDAfPmPVDSN9ypFHA

Sounds pretty bad when the phone is resting on the swim platform, can hear it in the engine room but not as loud.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/RqZQ7Adjqnw6Jpyj8

J3ff

Kind of the same noise...actually about half way through it's the exact same noise. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvQry3NjH7I

And the person says
" it was engine alignment was way off and yes it went away."

J3ff

If someone with a 270 that has a 350 or 383 could just humor me and take a picture of their front motor mounts showing the amount of threads above and below each one I'd be very appreciative. 

Willhound

The videos sound like gimbal. Or maybe u-joint, when was the last time they were greased?

J3ff

Willhound said:

The videos sound like gimbal. Or maybe u-joint, when was the last time they were greased?

The drive and gimbal are brand new as of 4 weeks ago (or so). I'd assume they were greased by the mechanics at that time. I'm convinced that when they took the engine out (2 or 3 months ago) to seal the transom assembly that they did NOT align the engine and this has been the source of the problem since then. Looking for mechanic #3 down here who will just do the job. Otherwise if everyone wants to tell me what they think it is rather than what I think it is, will have to do it myself I guess. 

Willhound

Could be not aligned properly, or they didn't seat the new gimbal properly. Don't assume they greased or checked the universal joints though as they are on the inboard side, all the other work was on the outside. Not that hard to get at to grease, there are two fittings, sometimes you have to "bump" the ignition to get at both of them. Worth checking anyway.

J3ff

Okay new question... These are the front motor mounts... Has anyone ever put theirs this high? 

212rowboat

So there are different kits for the rear mounts... one kit has what looks like a double lock washer or a cut off valve spring thingy while another has a silicone impregnated canvas washer thingy, as a for instance... 

I've adjusted that high before, and barely got what was a suitable alignment, and one that lasted a few hours of use.  Every single time I've gone that high I was mismatching the rear mount kits.  Every single time.  

Seeing that... my guess is even if it was aligned the engine torque shifting it through the magic of leverage and those rubber bushings allows it NOT to be aligned under load... and... you've got the wrong transom engine mount kits installed.  You may get by with just a plain stainless washer in there as opposed to the spring looking washer or impregnated fabric one.  The angle on the rear is wrong else you wouldn't need that much stack up front.  

I just had this issue... given it was an alpha.... the front was as high as the one in these pics before I could even insert the alignment rod... no bueno.  Then it occurred to me through several engine swaps I'd mismatched the transom and bell housing (coupler housing) tabs... i placed a single flat likely 1/16th washer, which basically protects the drive tab and the housing tabs as its only purpose, and whallah- the drive/engine aligned near the base of the mounts in the front.  

Here is the sticky part:  it isnt easy to reference which kit you need.... especially if you're mismatching them.... so.... you'll have to simply figure out which one is best..... on your own.... trial and error.... however, seeing how high those are a pointer will be "the lowest stack available".... this, however, is based on the engine being aligned as it is now.... if its out of alignment you'll have to align it first and go from there. 

J3ff

Can you see the rear mounts from up top? I've got nothing to do today but take pictures. Sigh. Keep in mind this motor and boat has been worked on 100% by mechanics. Aside from oil and things of that nature I've never done any heavy lifting on it from day one. 

212rowboat

you can sorta see them.  you'll be most interested where the two adjoin, and the thickness of that... to complicate matters, the engines coupler cover tabs are recessed a little which hides what's going on in there. 



these look to be the older cork style washers... the newer one is the silicone impregnated one i talked about... they'd be for the same kit i'd figure. 

i don't have a clue what's being presented in this picture, but it has to do with those rear mounts and not using the spring looking thing... 


and that would be true unless you're using an older coupler housing with the deep set 'pre-pressed' bushings in them, in which case you'd use those springy things AND a washer between the tabs. 

and then there is this showing the difference somewhat: 


in which the bushing slug is already in the engine coupler housing in most cases. 

i'd be interested in seeing what's in between your engine coupler tabs and your transom plate mount tabs.... how high it's stacked... because the higher it is? the higher your front mounts have to be tuned to accommodate a proper alignment, and the higher they are? the more leverage your engine has on those post mounts and rubber bushings, and how susceptible it is to mis-aligning under load due to engine torquing at throttle. 

J3ff

Taking pictures right now.

J3ff

Well that doesn't look right to me... 

J3ff

I just cant believe I'm in this situation. I paid 20,000 dollars for a new engine, transom assembly and all the labor that went into it, less than 4 years ago. 3 years later find water leaking in through the transom, so through 4k into that (the last thread that required the engine to come out)... then throw 2 gimble bearings in, a new out drive, and we're still here. I can actually believe that part...the part I can't believe is that mechanics have been doing the work here, not one time in 4 years have I done any heavy lifting on it. Just a new belt, oil, etc..  I have always told them "if you see something that needs to be fixed, let's fix it!" 

J3ff

Here's another angle, the cleaner one up above is port, the bad one is STBD