Anyone for what has likely happened to our Bravo III?

rasbury

First, happy forth and hope most are out enjoying their boats with there families today! Left from the marina this am, just puttering across the lake and as I came in to a slower minimum wake area, slowed a bit...as I did or shortly there after, I hear for like 2 seconds, this metal to metal sound and then no working props-engine ran fine but it did nothing going into forward or reverse....no sheen of lube around the back of the boat and it has fluid. 2005 with 200 hours on it, anyone have an idea of what I might be dealing with here? Also at home, in gear and I can turn the props by hand foward or reverse...

aero3113

I'm not sure how the Bravo III's are set up but could it be the prop hubs?

frenchship

No prop hub on bravo 111

rasbury

well, I believe there are but that noise I heard.....I am looking at that but getting the boat unloaded...

frenchship

I would drain the oil on the stern drives to see if any water or metal shavings

rasbury

10-4

frodo13056

Ras - sounds like it could be the coupler. It's a metal "bushing" the goes between the back of the engine and where the stern drive input shaft meet. 

Black_Diamond

Agree: bet the coupler went. Bad engine alignment will kill one. 

rasbury

And the damage would be?

212rowboat

Likely not a big deal, but engine has to come out.  Google up some pocs... you'll understand immediately. 1.5 to 2 hour job.  There are other things you may consider though, when engine is out and super easy to work on. 

Black_Diamond

If it is the coupler, Mercury has a heavy duty version worth using for the few extra bucks since you have it all apart. If you can find someone to help pull the engine (outdrive has to cone off too) the coupler just bolts onto the flywheel. Then just re-align the engine/drive. 

See if TikiHut is still out there, he did one himself a year or two ago. Same boat too. 

212rowboat

Stupid phone.... "engine can be out in 45 minites" 

rasbury

@zaverin1 I o have a lot to deck up on...getting ready to go on vacation so this will have to wait. Thanks for the input

rasbury

@zaverin1- I am not convinced it is the coupler, sure hope it is. When I dropped my speed down, I heard an awful noise for about 2 seconds- before I could get to the key it stopped. Only way I can think to describe it, you know when your drilling a thick piece of metal and you get to where it almost brakes through and you don't have enough oil on the bit and it makes this metal to metal "scouring" type sound- that's what it was like. My comments about putting it in gear were when back on land, I move the throttle forward and revers and you do not feel anything going into gear but I could not really feel anything before, it is always pretty smooth. The comment was that when the lever pushed forward on back, you can rotate the props by hand is where I was going ....I am putting it back into storage but over the next week or so will bring it home and first check to see if I can see anything spinning back there and assuming it is not then I'd think it the coupler. If it is spinning and I have a lower unit issue, I will drain the oil and see what I have there going on. At least if I take it to a shop I'd sure like a better understanding of what is wrong with it.

Dream_Inn

I'd just wait & let the shop look at oil while it drains (they may even look at other things first).  You could take a quick peek in your gear lube reservoir though.  If it's the u-joint, then no need to remove outdrive gear lube.

rasbury

yea, I was kind of thinking the same thing-this is obviously beyond a tinker job...

Black_Diamond

Coupler. 

rasbury

another mystery to this is, what is the function of the transmission in all this? I have the boat home and heading to the auto parts to get one of those mirrors on a stick...my recollection of when it failed was when I restarted the motor when I shifted it, I had no sense it was going into or out of gear...almost like the cable broke. Also, I don't recall as I moved the shifter back and forth that the RPM's did anything either..I was pretty freaked out all and all. If it weren't for that horrible noise I heard I would suggest my cables broke. Off to the store and a little poking around. I can't really find any info on line or in the lower ubit service maual abut this transmission...maybe I have misunderstood there is one but something has to engage and take it out of gear....

rasbury

Ok, transmission question resolved, ain't one in an outdrive per handy.....didn't think so but had to ask. Sure did not see anything beforehand. 
OK- I went out and verified that the throttle cable is working and it is. I got down by the foot and had the admiral move the shifter going back and forth and I can hear a noise that it is shifting,not 100% I guess that it is actually going into gear? I had the admiral spin the props with the shifter in forward position and the input shaft is for sure not moving. Is there any plate/cover I can remove on the top of the out drive to see if anything is going on there or at this point is it off to the shop and have the drive pulled to see if a universal went?? Ideas? 200 hours on the out drive. I did replace the main carrier bearing on the lower unit as it was leaking. I have changed the fluid since I have owned it proper but no idea on the service history or any other issues with it.

Handymans342

Just take to shop. At least they can give you an estimate so you know where you are

rasbury

Yep, next move...sigh..

Black_Diamond

You can pull the top plate off the drive and at least see what is going on. It is not worth working on it yourself. All kinds of special tools needed just to start. 

That drive comes off pretty easy. Takes 2 guys and a floorjack. Take the props off first to save the weight. 15 minute job. It is heavy and not balanced, near 150#, so just be ready. 

randy56

Ras, take it to the shop, I know you want to DIY but sometimes things that are over your head you are better off leaving it to pros.

rasbury

Already took it in- smart enough to know how all that stuff works and smart enough to leave it alone.....pretty curious as to what the problems ends up being. Hope the guy that replaced the main carrier bearing did not screw something up, it was leaking, 200 hours on this out drive.

Handymans342

Maybe its under warranty?

rasbury

2005.....

rasbury

ok-would have been a smart question when I first started this thread...so when I am turning the prop with the drive in gear...to figure out out of the coupler is toast, is it a 1 to 1 ratio? My wife turned the prop " some" while I was watching to see if the drive shaft moved....should I have marked it, how far does it move in relation to turning the prop by hand?

Black_Diamond

If the coupler is toast, the drive in gear: you should probably see a 1prop shaft to 2x at the coupler. Close enough. 

rasbury

I saw no movement but not really sure how much she turned the prop...I'd think 2 to 1 pretty easy to see...just a thought. I told the shop I was in no big hurry but this is now killing me!

Black_Diamond

Put in the HD coupler from Merc!

Black_Diamond

Probably fair in price. The HD coupler is P/N 861523A11.  Double check though. It has a longer input sleeve than standard. It will not affect in a bad way, at all, your drive or safety of it. Much better spline wear and greaseable too. They go for $700/800. Worth the upgrade while you have it out. 

I suspect you will be replacing the u-joints and shaft into the coupler too. 

rasbury

@Black_Diamond
so that price you would think would include the u joints? If not, how much should they run while they are in there? He said the coupler was 800 so he may already be using that....I'd assume the older version is no longer available?

212rowboat

I can't believe you just typed out that last sentence... are you crazy, man?  ..... I feel the danger just by posting in proximity of such a comment!

Black_Diamond

yikes!

jhofmann

I think all on this thread are now cursed! LOL

rasbury

thanks for the input-pulling the motor would be beyond the place I have to work on it, don't even have a shady tree! Assuming this is the problem, $$$ I should expect to pay?

rasbury

I don't have a place to pull the motor so looks like I will have to have someone do it...I recall Tiki doing it- I think he had a place at home to pull it in and pull it-certainly no way to hoist the motor at my home...

Black_Diamond

He might help?  Never know. He was kinda close to you too?

Handymans342

He is on the west coast and retired. 

212rowboat

I built a gantry out of lumber... 14' wide, 12' tall... you'd need more than that.  Sure made life easier. Didn't have to rent a wrecker (which can do it, by the way, and may be a good Avenue for you. )  or pay a shop. 

Engine can. Even out easily with 45 minutes. Swap out coupler in half am hour. Engine back in and aligned in an hour.  Have deck hand scrub bilge while it's out. Swap plugs filters wires or anything else, as it will never be easier.  Afternoon job, or all day job of you have to build gantry.

 Rent the wrecker, man. Have engine ready to yank, have him lift it.. swap coupler with it dangling. Drop it back him, slide him a benji... align everything, replug everything, slap drive back on, be merry. 

frenchship

 If you replace the coupler have a look at this info from Mercruiser.
http://www.marinemechanic.com/merc/distributors/mercurymarine/outboard/New Folder/coupler-install-change_EN_11.pdf

zaverin1

Well
so you feel the drive go into forward and reverse gear? When spinning the props?
also coupler will have a burnt rubber smell vs a clunk type noise.
start your engine and look at the back of it by the transom. See if the shaft is rotating then kick up the  rpm and see if it's rotating at a costant rpm and not slipping.

zaverin1

FYI if coupler is bad and burnt to a crisp then I can see how it had nothing in f and  r. most of them will still let you idle in at low rpm under regular fail mode.
Check gear lube and like people said look for water and metal. It could be anything from the upper to lower to coupler.

212rowboat

you may have snapped a u-joint.... in light of your last post about turning the prop easily by hand in or out of gear according to your shifter kinda speaks to that.  where were you trimmed when it happened?  all in or all out? 

rasbury

@212rowboat what about that awful noise, would that go along with that also?

frenchship

Would a u-joint failure be quite premature at 200 hrs ?

212rowboat

frenchship said:

Would a u-joint failure be quite premature at 200 hrs ?

yup.... unless it was at an angle above trim and into trailer tilt mode... then it can happen real quick like... which is why I asked him about where he was trimmed... 

Dream_Inn

Yeah, U joint is a definite possibility.  I've had the awful noise and it was a gear inside the drive.

rasbury

sounds like I need to start from the beginning, drain that oil and see if there is any metal in there. If I had been haulin buggy, probably would not have heard a noise but at slow speed, it sure was there and I know I was trimmed all the way down and going minimum wake type speed when it occurred.  I might do that before I put the boat back in storage tonight but I don't have any gear oil to put back in it and it's going to sit a few weeks before it goes to the shop regardless of what I find...suppose I should wait a bit. It's just odd- nothing "snapped" or went kthunk....