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ok- time to get started on my bellows repair

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    Dream_InnDream_Inn Member, Moderator Posts: 7,568 mod
    Yeah, I'm with Zaverin.  I can maintain and work on about everything in my boat.  I leave the drives to the experts.  They can usually fix it before the next weekend.

    Dream 'Inn III -- 2008 400 Express

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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,270 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would not even think of going into the drive.....

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    randy56randy56 Member Posts: 4,083 ✭✭✭✭✭
    X3, they are referring to removing the drive, bellows, gimbals, alignment, ect. There are some things you should not do yourself. 
    Boat Name : 

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    zaverin1zaverin1 Member Posts: 1,672 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2017
    Alpha drives i can remove , split to replace water pump and reinstall. I probably can do It in under one hr.
    bravos obviously have engine drive pumps so need to remove for water pumps.
    anyway point here is proper procedure to install all the bellows and hoses. Using tools
    and tricks of the trade not known to me.
    my coworker did his drive and by the end of the season blew it up.
    i hope it all works out for you 
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,270 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Met too! I do have a friend that is a mechanic who had all the tools...he also did the bearing alignment for me. I'm not leaking at the bellows but above them somewhere which I need more time in the water to see. Either where the water pickup tube comes through, the wires for the trim or perhaps the block where the speedo comes through. Leak started when I had the motor pulled to do a coupler. It is not the steering pin. Truck is in the shop today so I will get back to this and if it looks like the motor has to be pulled again to resolve a leaking transom assembly then I'm out.

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    LaReaLaRea Member, Moderator Posts: 7,578 mod
    This thread has 270 comments, and I haven't written one yet.  Until now.  I couldn't stand it any more.

    That is all.
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,270 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lol
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,270 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That is one of the nicest most resent comments. Got my truck fixed and will be back in the water to evaluate....
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,270 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well, back down to the ramp today with my friend Shanhe who is a certified Merc guy- also has been a service mgr. of a couple of small shops and trust him- plus he does not work on boats. Anyway, he had a little camera he could hook up to his cell, look around as I backed the boat down. Seems to be not the problem I thought and is where the exhaust goes through the transom- he could see water coming in at a good rate around there. He said either the plate has corroded beyond that seal, or, the seal is not there or it was not tightened properly. My leak all started after the coupler repair summer before last and has just gotten worse. So, the motor will have to come out to see what is going on. Rats.
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    Handymans342Handymans342 Member Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yup TA leak. Sorry ras
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    zaverin1zaverin1 Member Posts: 1,672 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2017
    Dude 
    When  coupler was done it was prime
    time for u or your mechanic to inspect everything.
    do you know what you just did?
    well lets just say take it all apart including the engine.
    start over after transom assembly replacement.
    waste of time and money
    ras
    take it to a shop and call
    it a day. 

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    Dream_InnDream_Inn Member, Moderator Posts: 7,568 mod
    Sorry to hear it Ras. I know you've been working hard, spending a lot time and hard earned money. I put in two new transom assemblies and was well worth it just getting it done right. Don't piece meal it, you'd be better off getting a whole new one.

    Dream 'Inn III -- 2008 400 Express

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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,270 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Just so I understand when I take it to the shop, the attached shows that there is a main seal on the outer gimbal ring plus another one for the exhaust itself, and then on the inside, another o ring I suppose to protect the boat if there is a leak through the exhaust bellows. So both the main seal and the exhaust seal on the outside and the O ring on the inside would have to fail to have a leak? does that really seem to be likely?
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    zaverin1zaverin1 Member Posts: 1,672 ✭✭✭
    You might have a cracked transom assembly or transom itself from original collision 
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,270 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm going to look at it again, if that's the case I should be able to put water in the boat and it would leak out. I'll mess with it a bit. The other thought, since all this leaking started when the coupler went, maybe they hit those exhaust tubes when they were putting the motor back in. My buddy said it was leaking around one of the bolts that holds the exhaust to the transom plate- I'm not really convinced. I saw water coming in much higher as described before. Might take it back to the ramp tomorrow if it's not to crowded. It's supposed to be pretty cold in the am so probably not many people will be there..
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    davidbrooksdavidbrooks Member Posts: 1,351 ✭✭✭✭
    I have been watching the comments and with what i went through i have been thinking that really any and all of the above could of happened.  The real question is " What do i do now?"  In my mind there are two options. 1) replace the Transom assembly and be done with it. 2) try and remove the existing one and reseal.  I personally would be planning on just replacing it.  The two that i replaced this summer took three days of heating bolts and working it to get the @#$@#$ things off.  Once i did i saw enough pitting to also realize the metal was going.  There are subtle engineering differences in that i am glad i replaced mine.  Especially in the water hose. I get a lot more water through now than before.   The good news is that a TA comes complete.  Brand new trim arms, sensors, hoses, clamps, seals etc..... =no worrying for years to come.   I looked around and could find them for about $1600.  
    It's 5 O'Clock Somewhere!
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,270 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My thought, if it is leaking there, if they knocked the pipes when they were putting the motor in...boat has 300 hours, lift kept the first hundred / 9 years and then trailer kept until now. The drive has no corrosion or anywhere on the transom visible. I need to get it back home- way to much fun last night for this guy so maybe this weekend....my head hurts....happy new year!
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    zaverin1zaverin1 Member Posts: 1,672 ✭✭✭
    Dude 300 hours and hoist kept means nothing.
    i can tell you that my boat has 200 hours and never abused! It’s bla bla bla game 
    long story short take it to a professional and save time and money.
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,270 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks @alswagg for the comment. As I research your comment, I understand this could have$0 to do with the transom assembly and might just be a corroded y pipe. While it still would require pulling the motor back, sure a lot less than replacing a transom assy and the y pipe! I should be able run on muffs to confirm as bad as it has gotten. I should have looked in there with the drive off.
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,270 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So moving this along, I done some various testing and determined it for sure is leaking around the main seal of the gimbal- which it was not before I changed the bellows. So, out drive is off, building a stand to put the motor on and next will be pulling to motor/remove the transom assembly and see what is going on. Hoping and praying I do not have any rot in the transom that I knocked trying to get the gimbal bearing out. Will know over the next couple of weeks. I have a pretty good diagram of the motor showing height/width and position of the front motor mounts. The relation of those dimensions to where the motor sits on the inner transom plate I do not. Any chance anyone has a diagram of this? I'm not sure where what I have game from, some sort of installation guide line for the motor but it is not in the manual I have...
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    zaverin1zaverin1 Member Posts: 1,672 ✭✭✭
    You alignment tool will help you guide and align the motor.
    mark the current position of the mounts 
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,270 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2018
    I'm after some ruff dimensions to build a stand for the motor to sit on...ill get down there and see what I can figure out. I want to build a stand on wheels I can put on a trailer and then roll it in my garage without it falling off! Like I made for the outdrive...
    Post edited by rasbury on
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    Michael TMichael T Member Posts: 7,227 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ras while the motor is out apart from checking the oil pan - I'd replace it just because - and all of the other checks you will do, I highly recommend installing a 90 degree brass elbow in the drain plug hole and attach an oil removal hose for super fast, clean and easy future oil changes. BTW if there is a bit or water penetration into the transom cut-out that is not a big deal as IMO - any good glass technician can fix that reasonably!
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    rkinrossrkinross Member Posts: 176 ✭✭
    @rasbury This thread is very informative for a diy guy like me.  I really like the wood bracket/trolley  you made to hold the outdrive after removing it from the boat.  I agree with you that sometimes engineering looks for more ways to make money by selling special tools and making things more difficult for a diy job.  In a perfect world routine maintenance items should be designed with an eye towards simplicity in removal and replacement.  I have an outboard and I am going to attempt to replace the impeller for the first time this spring.  The procedure looks way more complicated than it should be for something that needs changed every two years.  I think they could have designed it similar to how an oil filter is replaced on a car.  So is 10 years the life expectancy of a bellows?  There are lots of boats up here in Pittsburgh on craigslist that indicate they are selling it and the bellows needs replaced.  At $1200 a pop for replacement I can see why they are selling.    
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    zaverin1zaverin1 Member Posts: 1,672 ✭✭✭
    Just get a engine stand that rotates 360
    cheap and will work great.
    you will need to rent a cherry picker anyway to lift the motor out 
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,270 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Mt- I already have that with the quick drain tube- I have just used the drill type pump and stuck the hose in the. @zaverin1 I'm going to find an overhead lift to pull it..how does the engine mount to an auto style- where would you bolt it up?
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    Michael TMichael T Member Posts: 7,227 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ras, I'm not talking about those OEM tubes that lay on the bottom of the bilge and are sometimes connected to the drain plug. This set-up is a hose that  is connected to a 90 degree brass fitting in the bottom of the oil pan then the hose is either connected directly to a 12 volt pump or coiled-up against the side of the hull. With this set-up you could drain your oil before you got out and plugged-in your drill. BTW the drill and dip stick tube pumps are (IMO) fine if you are a marina but not for private owners who have the choice of installing a proper oil removal system. 
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    zaverin1zaverin1 Member Posts: 1,672 ✭✭✭
    Same way a regular block would bolt up lol
    you lift it out and remove the coupler and front accessories 
    after that bolt that sucker in
    you need to be really careful and think this thru.
    if you screw This up a boat without a power plant is worth pennies.
    i would suggest you take it to a shop


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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,270 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That's way to much work - I will build a dolly to set it on intact and roll it around- will check out the oil drain- couple of the pulleys have dome rust- good time to clean up that nasty bilge...lots of opportunities! Will post results in a couple of weeks.
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    rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,270 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The diagram has the dimensions I needed so I'm good there. 
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