Just ordered my Hill Marine 4x4 Props!!!

raybo3

@Michael T have you ever had Hill Props on your Rinkers??

Michael T

Answering not arguing, Ray: no, but - and I could talk about this for hours - more blades reduce top end - so why would you use them. Not for "control" on a cruiser, so the only reason would be to wrestle an underperforming log onto plane. My former EC 310 with 2 X 350 Mags needed nothing to get on plane which it did fassst and the RPM ran right at the top of  its specified band - even "tickling" the rev limiter. Same for the EC 360 with 2 X 502 Mags which ran 50 MPH + consistently! Friends and I have tried four and five bladed props on many, many boats over the years including different cups, rakes, diameters and of course, blueprinting. Indiana Propeller used to do my propeller blueprinting but I understand they were bought by Yamaha to make their props. Best I always - and I mean always - found was the proper HP for the boat and three bladed props. More than three blades = compromise......or making-up for a deficiency.

raybo3

@Michael T wow I find your comments very interesting. @Black_Diamond swears by them. If I remember correctly he said he could hear that his engines sound quieter and have less "strain" on them. Not sure what he said about top end speed. If I use my boat regularly  (no growth or scum) I have no problem getting on plane. I run about 32/35 mph at about 3800/3900 rpm per Faria gauges. Never know how accurate they are. BTW I have a known problem with my #6 cylinder on my S/B engine. Its at about 65 psi and going to do a leak down test in a few weeks.  

Dream_Inn

Time for MT to get a real boat!!👍

Jason, glad to hear those 4 blades did you well!  Great fuel mileage, better hole shot, and easier on the motor.  What else could you ask for!!

I bet my boat, larger and less power, would've beat MTs!!😁  At least the first 20 seconds from resting.

LaRea

MT would you rather spend $40k to sell your boat and buy one with bigger engines, or spend $1k to swap out OEM props for Hills and get a noticeable performance bump.  Wait, I already know the answer!  MORE POWER!  

J3ff

raybo3 said:

@Michael T wow I find your comments very interesting. @Black_Diamond swears by them. If I remember correctly he said he could hear that his engines sound quieter and have less "strain" on them. Not sure what he said about top end speed. If I use my boat regularly  (no growth or scum) I have no problem getting on plane. I run about 32/35 mph at about 3800/3900 rpm per Faria gauges. Never know how accurate they are. BTW I have a known problem with my #6 cylinder on my S/B engine. Its at about 65 psi and going to do a leak down test in a few weeks.  

This is exactly what I can report. The engine is MUCH less stressed, I cruise at the same speed as always but just a little higher RPM it seems. Top end isn't a big deal on this kind of boat it seems, anything over 35 isn't comfortable... 

Michael T

@LaRea Rea....neither. I would have (and did) buy the right boat first. @Dream_Inn.....brother your name says it all - no way in h3ll would your boat have come anywhere near that EC 360 .....not even close but one can "dream" :-).....don't ever pink slip with a 2014 or newer EC360 with 2 X502 mags B lll X's or you'll be boatless. Until someone has been on one of those 2014 or newer EC 360s with that set-up they have no idea what express cruising is....none at all. Nothing can touch that Rinker even the Formulas in that class. I have $hit all over those guys. A 400 with 496s .......not even a long shot chance. Sorry man.

LaRea

MT your perspective on express cruisers is VERY different from most owners.  You know that, right?  I'd say you are a one-percenter.  Less than one percent.  When was the last time an express cruiser pink-slipped?  

I don't think you'll get a lot of people to agree that a 400 with 496 motors is a terrible boat.  

Michael T

@LaRea....don't think I have ever been around a group of boaters that don't discuss performance of their boats - so your 1% club is more like 99% where I have been. You took the pink slip comment seriously - like racing Sea Rays for fun, actually I have raced Sea Rays for fun. Where did I say a 400 with 496s was a terrible boat - I can't seem to find that in my e.mail. Do you actually think a 400 with 496s could keep pace, at any point on the RPM bands with a 360 with 502s that was my point, actually it's just a fact. Yes, the last guy who shot his mouth off about beating my Rinker lost his ownership papers and had to buy them back (beers, shooters and wings for a group of us). I back my talk up with action. Question for you @LaRea have you ever been in an EC 360 with 502s. Have you ever been in an EC 400 with 502s - I was in the last EC 400 that Rinker produced- it was delivered by Randy Rinker to a Canadian as part of a warranty settlement. It was then sold by Hurst Marine, Manotick, Ontario, Canada - just down the river from where I used to live. I took it out for a spin. Even that 400 couldn't touch my 2014 EC 360 even though both had 502s. Just simple math. You remind me of the guy with the Fittapaldi.....he couldn't grasp the mathematics of the concept either. He didn't have a "terrible" boat it just couldn't catch my Rinker. Happy to have someone disagree with me but please don't ascribe characteristics to me or put words in my mouth. 

LaRea

You took the word "terrible" seriously!     What I'm saying is that going fast and "beating" other boats is very important to you.  That's fine, and it's part of the MT personality that forum regulars all know, love and respect.  But 99% of express cruiser owners just don't care about it as much as you do.  I sure don't.  

I loved my 342 with 350s.  That boat gave me a decade of wonderful times, and the engines never felt inadequate to me.  You probably wouldn't take that boat if Rinker gave you one for free.  Different strokes for different folks.  

Not that I'm speed-averse ... put me on four tires, and I agree with you 100%!

PickleRick

I put on a hill marine prop 4x4 big cow 18.75 x 16p.  I'm not 100% on diameter but it's their biggest.  2001 bayliner 2859.  B2 220 hp diesel.  Switched over from stainless solas 3 blade 18.75x19p.

Little over half tank of fuel. 5 gallons of extra fuel for gas genny, the gas genny of 60lbs, packed for a full weekend.  Huge cooler with food/drinks and 40 lbs of ice.  Me solo at the helm.

So far I've gotten about 20.5 mph at 2600 rpms.  I ran out of space to accelerate.  Will be trying it again this weekend.

Hull speeds(where I am most of the time) steering is much more stable with the 4 blade.  Will tell more top end over time. I should be climbing 1000 more rpm wot which im not.  Either my motor is too weak to push a near 10k boat or ive got something limiting my rpms.  Tiny tach to verify my tach is accurate should arrive next week.  Thanks China resistor back order. 

Dream_Inn

Sounds very promising @PickleRick.  I agree with the stability. I can actually go much slower, more stable, but still on plane.  This is important for me in rougher conditions.

@LaRea , I couldn't have said it any better.  Performance is one thing, but top speed is another that most don't care about.  Remember MT, I only stated the first 20 seconds from take off.  I'll add that I've had your same 360 follow me and the owner commented how fast we got on plane.  My real comment was really towards the acceleration onto plane.  It is an important thing to me because yes, my boat is heavy and, as you've even said numerous times, about max for stern drives.  I think getting on plane is the most stressed time on the boat.  So, these props made that part amazing!!  It is like a totally different boat.  I'll also add again that my prior 310 with the 5.0 MPI engines were great.  Never an issue getting on plane, even when packed for 10 days.  Heck, I  even shalom skied behind it!!👍

trip_n

hahahah = ran out of space to accelerate @ 20.5 mph

Aqua_Aura

My next boat was gonna be a trawler style in the 40 range however with all of this I guess I'll get a 360 with twin 502's 😆. 

PickleRick

trip_n said:

hahahah = ran out of space to accelerate @ 20.5 mph

Im on plane @ 16 or 17 mph which happens quick but to get to top speed this 1100 lbs oil burner needs some leg room.  I've put maybe 30 hrs on her this summer.  Holds 102 or 112 gallons.  She came with a full tank of fuel back in June.  Im just now at half a tank....well I put in some fuel treatment and added 10 gallons on the way down to the lake last night which puts me back over half tank  by a hair. 


Thank god i didn't buy this boat for speed!   But for putting around the lake, shes easy on the wallet.  Even with my buisness discount through orileys fuel filters were about 73 bucks.  I used wix, they had cheaper but I don't want cheap on a diesel.  

PickleRick

Dream_Inn said:

Sounds very promising @PickleRick.  I agree with the stability. I can actually go much slower, more stable, but still on plane.  This is important for me in rougher conditions.

@LaRea , I couldn't have said it any better.  Performance is one thing, but top speed is another that most don't care about.  Remember MT, I only stated the first 20 seconds from take off.  I'll add that I've had your same 360 follow me and the owner commented how fast we got on plane.  My real comment was really towards the acceleration onto plane.  It is an important thing to me because yes, my boat is heavy and, as you've even said numerous times, about max for stern drives.  I think getting on plane is the most stressed time on the boat.  So, these props made that part amazing!!  It is like a totally different boat.  I'll also add again that my prior 310 with the 5.0 MPI engines were great.  Never an issue getting on plane, even when packed for 10 days.  Heck, I  even shalom skied behind it!!👍

I want pics of this behind your 360.    

LaRea

Dream_Inn said:

... Heck, I  even shalom skied behind it!!👍

Mazel tov!!  

Handymans342

You guys are like MT!!! When I had my 342 diesel all you guys did was brag about how fast your boats were compared to mine!! LOL

Lake_Bum

I will chime in, and mostly agree with @Michael T with the theory of buying the boat with the proper motor to begin with is the best option.  My 232 with the 350mag, and Bravo3 is an awesome power to weight ratio boat.  I run it at higher elevations, and have it propped with 24's, factory props are 28's for this boat.  I can get incredible economy just cruising at 28-30mph, but the boat will do 50mph without a problem, or over-revving. 
Similar sized boats that I've owned, with smaller motors, consumed double the fuel.  Having the proper setup is the KEY.  
I'm not saying that the HIlls won't improve a boat, but some boats, don't necessarily need them.  Mine is in that category. 

PickleRick

Right now with 2 big coolers packed to feed 6, some 80 lbs of ice and me solo my speed is approx 22.5 wot at 2650 rpms on a rough windy day.  Once i shed some weight and the water calms i expect another 1 or 2 mph and 2 to 300 mph with the 4x4 prop.  I cruise about 18mph at 2100 rpms on plane.

Dream_Inn

Well, I still love my hill marine props, but I’m on my 10 day trip and had to replace them today….

Luckily I had my old spare aluminum ones on board.  Tried to change it in the water tied up to a floating dock in a busy narrows.  Finally did not have the leverage on the ratchet and them do a short pull.  40 minutes later I was back on the water.  Really strange that I did not hit anything.  Drives worked fine with old props (not as good as with hill marine).  I ordered a new prop already today and should be in time for Rinkervous.
I spoke with Ron from hill marine and he has never seen anything like it with the big cow.

YYZRC

Dream_Inn said:

I spoke with Ron from hill marine and he has never seen anything like it with the big cow.

I got the same “we have never seen this before” line regarding my props… 

LaRea

Dammmm ... were you on plane when it broke?  That must have been exciting!

aero3113

Looks like there was a lot of air bubbles in that steel if you zoom in….

Dream_Inn

So, I was on plane when it happened.  The boat vibrated like crazy!!  I agree about the air bubbles.  Ron wants to buy the prop to analyze.

J3ff

He should be refunding you 100%

captkevin

think i'd be asking them to exchange both sets of props.

johnny44

Agreed, I’d let him know that you have a bunch of people intently following the results of this as well as the results of @YYZRC situation on our forum.

LaRea

There's probably no way you'll ever know whether it was impact damage vs. a blade failure.  But wouldn't an impact usually bend the blade rather than breaking it off?  

aero3113

Agree @LaRea , I think it’s a defect in the metal.