engine alignment

rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,410 ✭✭✭✭✭
This is a bit of a mystery to me. When I did my gimbal bearing along with bellows and such. I could not get the outdrive back on. So my buddy comes over and say you have to align the bearing a bit. So, with the merc tool, worked it a bit, used a rubber mallet a bit and worked the tool into the coupler. So after putting my mother back in at the end of the day I grabbed the tool and pushed it in- turned it a bit but got it in without a lot of trouble...I'm going to grease it am so I can see the spline impression on the tool- what is an acceptable range of inserting tho tool?
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Comments

  • Dream_InnDream_Inn Member, Moderator Posts: 7,663 mod
    Tool should slide in/out using only two fingers.  If it's tighter than that, you need to make adjustments.  (I know, not what you want to hear)

    Dream 'Inn III -- 2008 400 Express

  • Liberty44140Liberty44140 Member Posts: 4,380 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Agree with dream, I’ve always been told the same. Last spring my mechanics spent a lot of time dialing in alignment. They tested the tool at 12 0clock, then 3, 6 and 9 to make sure it was aligned all the way around, they turned it a quarter of the way by bumping the starter with the key 
    07' Cruisers 390 (Previous Rinker's: 06' 342EC & 01' 310FV)

  • Michael TMichael T Member Posts: 7,227 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Done this many times. Two fingers lightly to push in or pull out (no pun intended) rotating is a good idea, particularly important on a new purchase to check factory install and for the next couple of years to allow for "settling" such as normal stringer deflection etc. 
  • reneechris14reneechris14 Member Posts: 3,134 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The term gimbal is the 0ut side race is on a different parallel then the center. So when you pound the bearing in you can adjust the center race with the alignment tool, sometimes the palm of your hand can work or some light taps side to side with a rubber mallet. Remember this with not change the grease lines that will be done with the front motor mounts.
    2005 Rinker FV342  Pawcatuck river,Ct
  • 212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The PITA develops as you realize a 1/16th turn on the mounts makes a difference.  Doing this alone is a major undertaking of acrobatics IN the boat OUT of the boat IN the boat OUT of the boat... Find a competent person and explain the job, and let them twirl the wrench... The important position is outside the transom... 

    Here is a trick I've learned, though:

    Place the rod through the gimbal and into the coupler as far as you can without force... Then adjust the engine for a ballpark by watching the extended rod pointing up or down... That slight misalignment is exaggerated at the end of the rod.  You obviously want it to follow the precise plane of the coupler/gimbal relationship... When its close, the rod will want to slide right out of its own volition. Just slip it back in, this time a little bit deeper, and do it again.  When it bottoms out you should be able to extract it with minimal effort and reinsert it with same.... 

    Its been my experience this trick ^ saves likely 40% of the time involved in this job, and by yourself that time is measured in hours. 
  • zaverin1zaverin1 Member Posts: 1,672 ✭✭✭
    Wait 
    turning the alignment tool only shows the error in the alignment tool itself lol not the actual engine alignment 

  • rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,410 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    well @212rowboat, wish I would have read your post 5 hours ago....and I don't have anyone to enlist to help so it's a one man show. I gave up for the day, have been steady working on the boat for the last two days including installing the motor and hooking everything else up. I had it to the point of a pretty good pattern all around, but, it took a little effort to retrieve it so adjusted more and now I'm scraping on the bottom of the tool. 1/16 of a turn eh? I have to incorporate your above to get it closer and then start doing the smaller increments. I had hoped to fire it up today but I have just run out of steam. I finally cut the end off my crescent wrench as there is just no room to work....if I did not have the genny down there it would be a lot easier to get in and out for sure....not sure how good these pictures come out but it puzzled me that the one shows the pattern with bare metal and the other side is just grease with no patter- you would think at this point I would see a pattern all around even if the pattern on the bottom which shows teeth and bare metal will indicate the front of the engine is still to high or to low? The bottom pictures is the bottom of the tool... 
  • zaverin1zaverin1 Member Posts: 1,672 ✭✭✭
    You can put enough grease in there to cover it 360 degrees at any alignment 
    Get it to slip in
  • rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,410 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    So, as I lay awake early this am thinking about this.....

    First, I think about the fact that this alignment is minute adjustments to get it right as 212 states. I understand how how important the alignment it is- however, everything around the gimbal bearing and the coupler is anything but exact. So, you have a motor bolted down- everything boils down to the relationship between the transom and them motor. No way that transom is perfectly parallel and  to that coupler. So, in comes the motor mount adjustment. I would point out at this time, when the motor came out, there is a spring washer that is supposed to be on each bolt for the rear mounts that were apparently not there. They would probably fall off and go to the bottom of the bilge when you pull the bolts out but after cleaning up, did not find them. I noticed going through the parts assembly they are required. Did not think much about it at the time, but, I'm sure they are needed to allow the motor to adjust- if they were not there the motor would be tied down tight against the motor mount and could not "flex" a little. So, all of that makes sense to me, except, you have the same issues with side to side with no ability to adjust? You put the rear motor mounts together, you can adjust the angle up and down with the front motor mounts. The motor can move side to side and if it can move up and down then it must also be able to move some side to side? And, what if the bearing is not 100% flat to the gimbal, maybe .010 would throw the hole thing out?

    At one point I had a good pattern all the way around and I could slip it in easily but I'm looking for the sliding it in with no resistance correct? It does not feel it is starting through the gimbal bearing with "no resistance" so am I trying for something I can't get? I would say I could get it out with one hand with a little push and a little pull!
  • reneechris14reneechris14 Member Posts: 3,134 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ras I just did my coupler 3 weeks ago and no springs on the back motor mount. On other applications the front motor mounts have side adjustments. I agree with you about the alignment tool even if there is no motor two fingers is a??
    2005 Rinker FV342  Pawcatuck river,Ct
  • rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,410 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Alswagg when I check the site I got parts from, it shows them.  You got me nervous! Do you have anyway to verify? I'm a novice here for sure and just trying to make sure I do it right. I looked the parts up on marineengine.com which looks like mercruiser parts manuals and by serial number.
    My serial numbers are: Engine: OW038097, outdrive is OW251759 and the transom is OW139887. If you can verify that for me I'd sure appreciate it...what happens if you mix them, I would think those spring mount would aid in adjusting the front engine mounts, taking pressure off the transom plate? Also, as mentioned above, the tool does not seem to want to go through the gimbal bearing "with two fingers", I had it where I thought it was pretty close with little effort but shooting for perfection here...at 60, I'm not sure I can go through this again in a couple of years if I do it wrong!!!!!
  • mattiemattie Member Posts: 1,278 ✭✭✭✭
    I'm a fastidious guy......this thread is totally creeping me out. 




    Jus sayin my 2 cents.
    246BR, 276BR, H310BR current
  • rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,410 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,410 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here is a you tube I found...I was as good as this at one point. This accurate?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w118LGsYgY4
  • reneechris14reneechris14 Member Posts: 3,134 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hope you have the orange suit that's the important part. Looked like a good alignment to me. 
    2005 Rinker FV342  Pawcatuck river,Ct
  • mattiemattie Member Posts: 1,278 ✭✭✭✭
    rasbury said:
    why @mattie ?
    Didn't get mine aligned for fall lay up. Just had them drain & refill drive oil. Regretting it.
    246BR, 276BR, H310BR current
  • rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,410 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    @reneechris14
    what about those spring washers? For my serial number, the parts list said they should be there....the more I think about it the less I understand what they would do....the engine mounts go between upper and lower mounts on the transom plate, can it move up and down at all?? I had mine aligned that good 3 hours ago....I'll go home and see if I can get it back to that...could have fired it up yesterday! Oh well, sure want to take the time to make sure it is right...thanks all. And @mattie you will be waiting to get yours back in the water- they will be busy getting everyone else in the water...why don't you have them do it now?? Also @reneechris14 have you pulled the motor up like this guy did??


  • rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,410 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I wish that was me @shawnmjr , I'd be done!
  • rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,410 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks @alswagg. I guess the web site in looking at is mot accurate for my parts. Where is a good site? Marineengine.com is what I have been going by...
  • rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,410 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    ok @Alswagg this is making me crazy...I went to the mercruiser site: https://public-mercurymarine.sysonline.com/Default.aspx?sysname=NorthAmericacompany=GuestNA_KEY=NA_KEY_VALUElangIF=englangDB=eng which lists part number 33734, lock washer....and when I google the image I get  https://www.google.com/search?ei=ObzqW8GSB8O3ggfRtbjYCg&q=mercruiser+33734&oq=mercruiser+33734&gs_l=psy-ab.12...2256.7313..9473...0.0..1.434.1089.2j2j1j0j1......0....1..gws-wiz.......0j0i71j0i67j0i22i30.oF6a_PogMYs which shows a spring type lock washer which was not on my transom- are we talking about the same thing??? I will use the mercruiser site going forward but it looks to be the same info on both sites....  Plus, they put that lock washer at the top and not the bottom, assume it would not matter...
    Post edited by rasbury on
  • pistolepistole Member Posts: 158 ✭✭
    - what is the worse that can happen with a mis-aligned setup ? - how much mis-alignment can the system take ? - does alignment change over time ?
  • rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,410 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    Well, I'm really confused...yes, that washer is needed @alswagg and when I go back and look by serial number again, I do not see the lock washer or "spring" as I was calling it.....it is on there and I guess I better get it off.  And I do see Al that break in the out drives and that mine does not get that lock washer,....I really made a rookie mistake on that one and will get it off. I must have just looked at the serial number range wrong or something and glad I brought it up, thanks, for catching that!

    And this is still not the one for my boat, I down loaded the wrong one!

    I was looking at part 7 and saw the rubber split type washer.....wo WTF, looks like there are 3 different possibilities for # 7 on this list? This is the right page for my serial number!

    I am going to remove the spring lock washer, review the parts I have and probably put it back together and move on .
    Post edited by rasbury on
  • 212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
    well.... dang.... 
    I've lifted and dropped several engines, and a few had those half-valve-spring looking lock washers, and others didn't... the recess on the transom plate 'appeared' the same to me in either case, and all these got 'new' fasteners on re-install... 

    the 'new' ones have that thick fabric backed nylon pad that fits in, and my 'assumption' (uh-oh) was that it served the same purpose as the valve-spring-looking lock washer, and by allowing just a touch of wiggle when required... 

    I've gotta go back and re-evaluate this, now... I've yet to have an issue- but..... dang it!!!

    now on the topic of misalignment and/or seized gimble bearings: when i lost the gimble altogether (seized) it shut the engine down hard- speaking with precision, it "stalled" it... the 'braking' power of the gimble was enough to overcome the available torque of the engine, so it stopped the engine cold.  This happened on plane and nearing WOT as i was trimming up- the gimble couldn't handle the angle, but i could leave the leg deep (trimmed down) and it would run just fine... point is, this will be your warning and your only warning prior to a gimble and/or coupler failure.... the engine was properly aligned in that case, too... 
  • rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,410 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yep @Alswagg
    I have the correct list of parts for my rear engine mount bolts and will pull them this weekend...I'm sure I have what I need, I'm just trying to add one more to the mix! I will get those off on Saturday and get back to the alignment. All I have to do is put the outdrive back on and put the boots from the Y pipe to the exhaust, top off the fluids and I'm ready to fire it up. I hope to have it at the marina Thanksgiving weekend. The admiral says we have to spend the night there first before we venture out to make sure we don't sink....which brings me to a question...all through the boat every hose is double clamped etc....to me, when you look at the shift cable boot and the drive shaft boot, there sure does not seem to be much between floating and sinking at that connection....
  • reneechris14reneechris14 Member Posts: 3,134 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Living on the edge.
    Got me thinking when I did my coupler are the right bolts and washers there? thanks for the diagram will double check for sure.
    Remember captain Ron said "if it going to happen it going to happen out there"
    2005 Rinker FV342  Pawcatuck river,Ct
  • pistolepistole Member Posts: 158 ✭✭

    This happened on plane and nearing WOT as i was trimming up- the gimble couldn't handle the angle, but i could leave the leg deep (trimmed down) and it would run just fine... point is, this will be your warning and your only warning prior to a gimble and/or coupler failure.... the engine was properly aligned in that case, too... 
    in other words , you could have issued even with a properly aligned setup ?
  • 212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    When gimble seizes, yes.  But for record, wasnt perfectly aligned, which led to premature gimble failure... See how that works?  I'm going to blame the misalignment on not having right part on the transom mount... I had the nylon pad instead of the half or quarter valve spring looking lock washer, which possibly allowed the transom to settle or move out of alignment. It was good when the outdrive was fitted, but I dont recall turning engine and trying again either. 
  • 212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hold up... @Alswagg, is the springy no springy difference because of the transom plate or the couple/bell housing taps?  I recall now the original bolt wouldnt reach, and comparing the bell housing is where the difference was... There was a different fitting pressed into the bell housing and THAT was the difference.... Are they BOTH different meaning I've mixed bell housing/transom plates?  
  • rasburyrasbury Member Posts: 8,410 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oh my, I really stirred it up. My concern when I started this project was not knowing what had been apart prior. I always try to put things back together the right way regardless of how I took it apart. On that one part, on the mercury parts manual there are 3 different versions...the hd lock washer, the washer Al identified and there was another split rubber washer looking thing- I really screwed up with my serial number range which got me to the wrong lock washer. I'm not a mechanic and I have never torn a transom apart so all I can do is hit the books and pick the brains of those who know. All I can provide is a strong back and a weak mind....
  • 212rowboat212rowboat Member Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hold up... @Alswagg, is the springy no springy difference because of the transom plate or the couple/bell housing taps?  I recall now the original bolt wouldnt reach, and comparing the bell housing is where the difference was... There was a different fitting pressed into the bell housing and THAT was the difference.... Are they BOTH different meaning I've mixed bell housing/transom plates?  
    @Alswagg??? Help, brother. 😀
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