engine alignment

rasbury

are you checking serial numbers @212rowboat? That's where I made my mistake...

rasbury

ol, this is not making sense....I have the aluminum washer at the top, I have the spacer...on part 7 which are apparently 3 different possibilities on my serial number (which makes no sense to me) I have the larger fiber washer 32834 but I did not have the lower washer 54012 as @Alswagg correctly identified. So, I went to ACE hardware and they have a metric washer for od and id that is perfect, probably.015 thinner than the .105 asked for but assume that would be close enough....so I torqued it down to 38 ft. pounds per the manual and the fiber type washer is no where near tightened down to the mount, how can that be right? The motor would potentially go up and down at least about 1/16 inch or more? Hope your checking the forum @Alswagg or someone else that can answer it. In the plus side, the alignment must be getting close as the bolts came out really easy! I will proceed with final alignment but that sure does not look right to me....

Also, this alignment is a fine tuning of where the motor is sitting in relation to the transom plate and this the bearing....which means when the engine is installed and the transom plate bolted down, then they have to be near perfect in alignment and then I'm adjusting the front mounts to dial it in perfect, correct? When I put the transom plate in the boat, there was no adjusting where the transom plate sits on the transom itself...I assume when the holes are drilled there must be some sort of jig but how can that me that accurate? I'm out there adjusting away....I'm getting a good pattern on the bottom and little on the top so I'm raising the front of the motor.....slowly.....and then it just gets tighter not better....like the bearing and the coupler are not close enough in alignment to make these slight final adjustment?

rasbury

engine is 0w038097   ...driving me friggin nuts had it pretty close I think and bumped the motor and now way off again....something just is not lining up right...I have spent 5 hours on it today taking the front mounts from below where they were to above where they were, small increments. I get the grease to go from nothing on the top to nothing on the bottom- and can get a pretty decent pattern all around. But what it won't do is easily slide in and out. Some thing is off.

So, I did a little research and just found more puzzling stuff unless I'm looking at something wrong...when my motor came out, as far as I know, I had nothing below the spacer so that's not good...probably the guys that did my coupler.

I have three parts lists attached......one is the fly wheel housing for my serial number, the other is the transom plate for just below my serial number and then my serial number. Notice on the fly wheel housing, it also shows the bolts and shows that spring washer and also a spacer # 30 on top of the engine mount and I don't have that....the transom assembly for my serial number shows no spring washer but the washer that @Alswagg said should be there- then, the transom assembly for just below my serial number shows also the spring washer. Of course, none of this really matters I suppose if all the washers etc. go on the bolt before they go through the flywheel housing. I saw on line, that same spring washer on a 3.0L going between the flywheel and the transom plate, that would make a difference in the engine height in relation to the gimbal bearing...I'm getting pretty stumped.

rasbury

So, from another site I came across this tech bulletin. @212rowboat and @reneechris14 should find this interesting as well. First, I used the parts manual as my assembly manual and forgot that the fiber washer went in between the flanges of the flywheel and the transom plate tabs....opps. Hopefully I can lift the motor enough to slip them in along with the washers. I don't understand how a knurl on the engine mount eliminates the double wound spring washer but I guess I have to go with it and the fiber washer will raise the back of the motor slightly so I can get the motor aligned? Even compressed, the spring washer will be thinker than the .105 SS washer that it is replaced by?

reneechris14

The fiber washer never moved at least that what it looks like in the picture 

rasbury

yea, well I remember now pulling them off when I pulled the transom asy and wire brushed and repainted pretty much everything....so your had the spring washer or not? If not, where should be the washer that Al described there in place of....I will have to see if I can lift the back of my motor and slip the fiber and SS washer into place, that sounds like fun....do you think that will lift the motor some? Maybe that's my alignment issue if so...

reneechris14

Serial number OW312905 motor
Serial number OW189401 transom 
My boat is a 2005,as is yours 
I don't think my motor was ever out or transom ever replaced.
Why are you up at 3am?

rasbury

so by your transom number then, yours had the "double wound" spring washer then? I don't get on mine pulling that washer out, which would have to raise the motor I would think and then replacing it with a SS flat washer that is less than 1/8 thick.......I will raise the back of the motor and slip it in there with the washers I bought. Also, 3 am is very bad indigestion....so nothing better to do than look on the puter. I have to get this done today. Maybe @Alswagg
can chime in on this....It was also suggested that once I had the tool fully inserted I should have "aligned" the bearing by knocking on the tool to line it up better? How hard? How much??

So, the other thing I noticed and mentioned that no one has replied is the engine mount bolt head/washer do not go down tight against the tab on the fly wheel, won't the motor bounce up and down as torque is applied??

rasbury

I saw that Al which adds to the confusion for me..if you look at the parts list it has the spring lock washer! Did you see the bulletin above that I attached? Does not sound like this will affect my engine alignment, maybe I need to align the bearing once I have the tool in it.

rasbury

Sorry @Alswagg
we were typing at the same time....so now I need this shim kit then? That would make more sense for removing the thick lock washer....but I wonder why this does not show then on the transom plate parts list?

reneechris14

I have design ll and washers never moved. I did not do the alignment because the drive is in my basement. Will tackle this in the spring.
I get confused on serial # I think MCM and OW throw of the numbers. You should have what came out, dont see why you need different washers. My bolt tightened down with no gap.

rasbury

well you have answered my problem- all I had was the bolt, the washer on the top, one spacer and the fiber washer....none of the other washers are there....one chart says I should have a shim kit...another says I should have a washer to go with the fiber washer on the bottom.....I have a large space between the fly wheel housing and the bolt, did not think until I looked to see that but it will be 1/8" probably....I'm also told that if the fly wheel rests on the fiber washer then that means that the motor mount has collapsed....so if the fly wheel tab and the transom plate tab do not touch, then all the rear weight of the motor would be on the little spacer that rests on the motor mount....geesh. How about aligning that bearing as it has been suggested to put the tool in when it is close and know it around real good to align the bearing....

rasbury

so got the washer and the fiber washer installed under the fly wheel tab, washer is not tight as I'm told it should be- the washer for sure raised the motor by it's thickness...tool won't even go in any more...

So, spent a little time trying to adjust it, to get it to start accepting the tool, I'm about at the end of being able to get the nut on the front mount so I guess I did raise the motor, problem now it is to high...sigh...maybe that is why the washer was missing, there was a bad install at the factory of the transom assembly.

rasbury

No beer, would not get this far...frustrated.

212rowboat

Al answered my question indirectly. 

And this is gonna sound bad, but.... 

Is the engine isolated from the transom plate with 1/4 valve spring looking washer OR a nylon fabric clad pad?  Good... Thats the important part.  Whichever assists with the alignment is the better to use... I've done it both ways, by replacing engines too many times. With the lastest mercruiser built engine thata in there now the bolts from the prior engines wouldnt come close to reaching, so I ordered a kit based off s/n OF THE ENGINE, and whallah..... The difference is the bell housing bushings which are often pressed in, not the plate. 

Use the one that aligns easier... As common sense dictates, too much height pff tje mounts places excess wear on the seats via greater leverage.  Align it using highest stack if blocks are low, tilting back of engine up, or shortest of blocks are high tilting back of engine down... Hope the factory tapped the transom right and mounted the transom plate properly, else you'll have a bear of a time.  

rasbury

When the spring washer is not used, there is a washer used it its place per the bulletin I attached. I have a friend that will come over Friday who worked as a mechanic and ran a shop. Only thing, he says its near impossible to get that perfect alignment everyone talks about..

212rowboat

for what it's worth, i've always had problems with the whole concept of 'two fingers used to push in, two fingers used to pull', as just pushing through the gimble requires more force than that.  

however, perfect alignment is possible.  using the alignment rod and wrapping your entire paw around it, and being careful and smooth, you can feel both undue resistance as well as when the angle if/when your hand/arm changes to accommodate the lack of alignment.  the grease/spline lines tell the real tale.  

you can actually hear a misaligned engine if you tune in.  there is a decided growl if you're out... easiest discovered when you're on plane and are trimmed for least resistance, and you throttle to place as low a load on the engine as you can- things quieten down and you can hear the drive line working it's magic better- humming is fine, growling isn't.  a growling gimble is a very unhappy one. 

Ian

While I understand the cost factor having an expert do this, the thread has more convinced that this is not something a non-expert (me) should do..... The hourly rate is worth the investment as far as I am concerned.

212rowboat

icoultha said:

While I understand the cost factor having an expert do this, the thread has more convinced that this is not something a non-expert (me) should do..... The hourly rate is worth the investment as far as I am concerned.

nah... this job is easy- the difference being that @rasbury is reinstalling an engine and the hardware he has on hand is in question.  for most of us, we're not pulling engines we're just tuning the alignment annually/bi-annually.  with two people it's a five minute job once the drive is off.  and, it's simple. ridiculously simple, in fact....  

I'd love to have confirmation from the pro's ( @Alswagg ) about the number of variations, if any, of the various transom plates (Alpha's, Bravo's) and the various bell housing bushing configurations.  Again, much of this current discussion is about different hardware used while swapping/puling engine free of hull and replacing it... in my particular case, I used the fabric clad nylon pad instead of the 1/4 valve spring looking washer because and only because the bell housing bushing was different from the engine i pulled and the engine i installed- there have been no perceivable ill effects, and though i could have ran to the hardware store and purchased longer bolts and retained the 1/4 valve spring looking washer, the kit i ordered to replace it, with the nylon pad, worked just fine (and it looked to be made to fit the indentation/cut-away on the transom plate just as much as the spring-washer did). 

rasbury

so, maybe I have it.....but I have no room on the engine mount for the lock washer and the nut....the nut was pretty much flush before, I suppose putting that washer on under the engine mount push it up a bit. The easy of the bearing tool is much better than what my buddy did,,,,he got it close, banged it around and got it to go in. I can't figure out how to upload the video from my phone from my computer...

212rowboat

no bueno... 

the alignment is a LOT more important than the isolation of the transom plate from the bell housing.  your engine is sitting so high it appears the filler between the transom plate and bell housing, be it the spring washer, a fiber clad pad, or a regular lock washer is too much, causing you to have to tilt the engine too much to make it align.  

if you drop the back by using a suitable isolation (a stainless washer 1/8th" thick?) you'll find the front of the engine will drop (considering the distance is what, eighteen inches-two feet or so?) about an inch and a half to the rear dropping 1/8th inch.... that allows you to not only use the washer, but use a nylon lock nut on it too... 

just make sure it's isolated.... I've decided it isn't that important what height the filler is if it negatively impacts alignment.  the higher the engine sits on that mount the more stress it places, via leverage, on those mounts and specifically the lags holding the mounts in place.  not to mention the bushing of the mount all by itself.  

also.... they make different height mounts.  this may be something else going on here... you didn't swap them, did you? 

rasbury

So, the only thing added is the one washer missing which is .105 thick- which seems to throw the hole thing out. Maybe that was why it was missing...so, I could remove the washer, install new mounts with a longer stud...put some aluminum bar under the mounts I have....put some sort of bendy tab washer under the bolt...the alignment looks pretty good at this point. Just can't get the lock washer on it.

212rowboat

Is there enough thread for a regular washer and short stack nylon locking nut?  It's imperative it doesn't move. With that little thread and nothing locking it, it could torque and pull right off that mount. 

Even if only a one time use locking nut.... But a nylon locker ought to be fine... 

rasbury

So, what a journey over the Last two weeks. Going through the parts manual to find that it appeared I was missing the spring lock washer, to finding a tech bulletin that the mount was redesigned and replaced by a washer to if that don't work just pitch the part which is where I started, missing parts. And this is just an engine mount. As far as the front mounts, I have the correct nut and lock washer on the top. The lock tab is on the bottom and looks exactly like shown in the parts manual, for what that is worth! I will lift the motor, again, and pull that washer out and start over. Thanks, kind of thought this is where this saga would end up.

zaverin1

Ras just weld the mofo in place and call it good
no need for future alignments 😂 

rasbury

ok @Alswagg , confusing me with the two different posts- I have the bolt, I have the large aluminum washer under that and then I have the sleeve. That is all top side of the fly wheel housing. I have the large fiber washer- when it came apart, as far as I know, that is all that I had. Going through the parts book I thought I was missing the spring washer so purchased. I would point out now that I took all this to my local city marina and it's a huge marina, they put it all together wrong. That's for those that said take it to the shop. Anyway, you had pointed out I did not need the spring washer but the part 54012 which is .53x.870x.105. So, I went to the hardware store and found SS washer that the ID would slip on the bolt, the OD is about the same size as the sleeve and it fits INSIDE of the fiber ID. The fiber washer dimensions are .937x1.75x.172. How would the fiber washer glue to the SS flat washer which is smaller than the ID of the fiber washer? I ASSUME that the engine mount now rests on that SS washer, which increased the height of the motor in the rear x .105 and do to the angle of the dangle the front engine mount bolts are running out of thread....your second line states on the transom plate I should only have the fiber washer which is the directions I was heading until your morning post! Get me straight brother! I guess since the washer screwed it up, I will do this anyway....I was very attentive to any parts in the bilge when the motor was pulled and had no left over parts or pieces....and I have the alignment so good!

rasbury

Thanks @alswagg I think I have it straight!

pistole

good luck Ras !!

GMSLITHO

Yes good luck 

rasbury

lord I hope luck don't have anything to do with it.....mine usually sucks! Will work on it Friday/Saturday.