Virus

MarkB

69fastback said:

If every airline in the United States joined together in advertising that the average person has only about a 0.023% chance of getting (not dying from, just getting) Covid-19 from a two-hour flight on a commercial airliner in which every seat is filled, would that be enough to get you to fly again?

I think that is with the current infection rate ... the issue will be if it truly goes pandemic in the states, fueled by more direct and unprotected interaction ... in a matter of months we can go from 0.02% chance to 20% chance.

I always said, if we feel that we are over-reacting by looking at the stats, that is proof our efforts are working.  

J3ff

Lots of schools are starting up next week, even though it's spreading through the schools that started last week... guess we'll see! 

Someone is keeping track of it: https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?fbclid=IwAR14OjPeVK_pUXSnM6rXIe0o7Zb93gZ1giiw2cipyvzv_u2mYfC5OLv3lfk&mid=1OfqHMHLSrWuVmJiTazZs6jT3ZHdPBhIJ&ll=40.72376330328396%2C-100.8984375&z=3&sa=D&ust=1597324799896000&usg=AFQjCNEKH0EFi7tWpxx7CRWX9HqozAV5Nw

GMSLITHO

Handymans342 said:

People will never wake up to what’s really going on. 

Get the popcorn the show is starting soon

trip_n

handy 69 with the pickle

Willhound

I've been staying out of this thread lately because I was having difficulty staying objective and didn't feel like this was the place to stand on a soap box. But that all changed today when I became a "presumptive" case.
More on that in a minute. I will say this. I get that many of you do not believe this is a big deal and that the negative effects on the economy have been too extreme in relation to the effects on human life and health. Freedom, personal rights, too much government involvement...Rah, rah for the American way etc.
I have many American friends and enjoy visiting your country every year (ok, maybe not this year) so I mean no personal disrespect to anyone but I have to tell you that the rest of the world is either laughing their a$$e$ off, or at least shaking their heads in bewilderment when it comes to some of the shenanigans we see on the news everyday. The anti-maskers, the large gatherings, protests in large groups, high ranking politicians espousing views that are downright dangerous. We simply cannot understand how this has become such a politically and religiously divided issue and how such large parts of the population don't or won't believe what top scientists are saying all over the world.
OK, that's as close as I'll get to a rant.
Now to my personal circumstances. I work in construction supply and as such am considered "essential" and have been working throughout in direct contact with hundreds of people a day in close proximity. I try and be careful, wear a mask, go through a half a bottle of hand sanitizer every day.
I woke up two nights ago in the middle of the night drenched in sweat. Severe abdominal pain, headache, dizziness, some unpleasant visits to the bathroom. I wrote it off as having eaten a fish taco that smelled a little strong and the half a dozen beers I washed it down with. But after three days I'm still nauseous, can't eat a lot, still have the headache and have developed an ache between my shoulder blades and just generally feel lousy. I missed work yesterday, went in today but after speaking with my boss we decided that it would be best if I came home and got tested as a precaution. Just got back from the test, which was no big deal at all, made my eyes water for a second.
But there are going to be some minor consequences. Until my test results come back I must self isolate. We had planned a long weekend on the boat and made reservations at a marina that I must now cancel. My daughter lives with us and works in a Long Term Care home so she must also now stay home and also be tested.
So it will cost us each at least 3 or 4 days pay while we wait for results and our boat trip is cancelled. I might still go out and isolate on the boat and not visit anywhere, although technically I'm not supposed to leave my residence.
And honestly, I'm feeling better and better and really feel that my test will be negative.
But that's not the point. There is a chance it could be positive and just the thought that I could put co-workers or others at risk makes me feel that I have to do the responsible and educated thing and follow the guidelines. Or even worse, that if I pass it to my daughter who passes it to her "residents" who are aged and not in the best of health and it causes someone's illness or death I would be devastated.
So back to the whole personal freedom thing. My opinion (but one that I think is shared by the vast majority). Everyone has a "right" to live their life as they wish...however, living in a civilized society we also have a "responsibility" to our fellow man to do what is best for everyone as a whole. That is how civilized societies work. All you have to do is look at history to see which civilizations broke down and fell apart.
It was the one's where certain groups decided they didn't want to follow the rules of that society and broke off on their own, to the detriment of everyone else.
Getting along with society and following the guidelines does not make you "part of a herd" or make you "weak". If anything I believe it takes a strong and powerful individual to make tough decisions, sacrifice a little if need be and stay in the game until the end. Not take your ball and go home because you don't like the rules.

YYZRC

Willhound said:

But after three days I'm still nauseous, can't eat a lot, still have the headache and have developed an ache between my shoulder blades and just generally feel lousy. I missed work yesterday, went in today but after speaking with my boss we decided that it would be best if I came home and got tested as a precaution. Just got back from the test, which was no big deal at all, made my eyes water for a second.

I don’t fundamentally disagree with your thoughts but I have to say - you went to work while feeling sick with COVID symptoms?! I think that was a pretty big lapse in judgement, especially given your stance on COVID. 

For anyone who hasn’t watched The Handmaid’s Tale, you should. There are more than a few parallels to our world right now.

I don’t agree with the violent protests/looting in the US but I happen to believe that us Canadians might be a bit too accepting of some of the steps that have been taken. 

Handymans342

@Willhound. What you had was a hangover. LMAO

Willhound

I actually didn't realize that what I was feeling are considered some symptoms of Covid or never would have gone in at all. Was only after discussing with the boss and taking the online self assessment that I realized they could be, so immediately left and went direct to the test site. Doc that tested me re-assured me that with not having a fever or difficulty breathing, no cough etc. it's probably not Covid, but regardless he agreed I did the right thing by coming in just to make sure.
Still think it was the fish. Just ate a sandwich and feel pretty good.
But...however slight the chance, it could be, hence the now state of self isolation.
Also agree that we are sometimes too compliant. I have been one of the first to take advantage of being to able to get onto the patio at some local restaurants and bars as long as their set up looks good. I figure they can use the business and it's good getting out again, even if every second table is blocked off. So I'm not running "Covid scared", believe me, in our work environment, if I haven't caught it yet I probably won't...of course, still have to see what the test results say. So I'll sit on my a$$ for a few days and see.

Willhound

Handymans342 said:

@Willhound. What you had was a hangover. LMAO

I have to tell you that as a long term seasoned bar "pro" if all it takes is a half a dozen beer to get me feeling that lousy I might as well start digging the grave now! 
Still blaming the fish...

Handymans342

Depends what beer it was

69fastback

Willhound said:

I've been staying out of this thread lately because I was having difficulty staying objective and didn't feel like this was the place to stand on a soap box. But that all changed today when I became a "presumptive" case.
More on that in a minute. I will say this. I get that many of you do not believe this is a big deal and that the negative effects on the economy have been too extreme in relation to the effects on human life and health. Freedom, personal rights, too much government involvement...Rah, rah for the American way etc.
I have many American friends and enjoy visiting your country every year (ok, maybe not this year) so I mean no personal disrespect to anyone but I have to tell you that the rest of the world is either laughing their a$$e$ off, or at least shaking their heads in bewilderment when it comes to some of the shenanigans we see on the news everyday. The anti-maskers, the large gatherings, protests in large groups, high ranking politicians espousing views that are downright dangerous. We simply cannot understand how this has become such a politically and religiously divided issue and how such large parts of the population don't or won't believe what top scientists are saying all over the world.
OK, that's as close as I'll get to a rant.
Now to my personal circumstances. I work in construction supply and as such am considered "essential" and have been working throughout in direct contact with hundreds of people a day in close proximity. I try and be careful, wear a mask, go through a half a bottle of hand sanitizer every day.
I woke up two nights ago in the middle of the night drenched in sweat. Severe abdominal pain, headache, dizziness, some unpleasant visits to the bathroom. I wrote it off as having eaten a fish taco that smelled a little strong and the half a dozen beers I washed it down with. But after three days I'm still nauseous, can't eat a lot, still have the headache and have developed an ache between my shoulder blades and just generally feel lousy. I missed work yesterday, went in today but after speaking with my boss we decided that it would be best if I came home and got tested as a precaution. Just got back from the test, which was no big deal at all, made my eyes water for a second.
But there are going to be some minor consequences. Until my test results come back I must self isolate. We had planned a long weekend on the boat and made reservations at a marina that I must now cancel. My daughter lives with us and works in a Long Term Care home so she must also now stay home and also be tested.
So it will cost us each at least 3 or 4 days pay while we wait for results and our boat trip is cancelled. I might still go out and isolate on the boat and not visit anywhere, although technically I'm not supposed to leave my residence.
And honestly, I'm feeling better and better and really feel that my test will be negative.
But that's not the point. There is a chance it could be positive and just the thought that I could put co-workers or others at risk makes me feel that I have to do the responsible and educated thing and follow the guidelines. Or even worse, that if I pass it to my daughter who passes it to her "residents" who are aged and not in the best of health and it causes someone's illness or death I would be devastated.
So back to the whole personal freedom thing. My opinion (but one that I think is shared by the vast majority). Everyone has a "right" to live their life as they wish...however, living in a civilized society we also have a "responsibility" to our fellow man to do what is best for everyone as a whole. That is how civilized societies work. All you have to do is look at history to see which civilizations broke down and fell apart.
It was the one's where certain groups decided they didn't want to follow the rules of that society and broke off on their own, to the detriment of everyone else.
Getting along with society and following the guidelines does not make you "part of a herd" or make you "weak". If anything I believe it takes a strong and powerful individual to make tough decisions, sacrifice a little if need be and stay in the game until the end. Not take your ball and go home because you don't like the rules.

So what you’re saying is, if you test positive for COVID 19, you had a few days of feeling bad, and then you were fine?  Sounds like most the times I’ve been sick when the whole world didn’t shut down and nobody lost their careers. 

PickleRick

Im not an anti masker....i wear one in buisnesses/places that require them.  My business doesnt wear them or ask customers to wear them but you can wear one if you want.

Your mask won't save you when half the people handle them with dirty hands.  

LaRea

PickleRick said:

... Your mask won't save you when half the people handle them with dirty hands.  

Self-protection is not the purpose of wearing a mask.  Your mask protects OTHERS from YOU.  

PickleRick

LaRea said:

PickleRick said:

... Your mask won't save you when half the people handle them with dirty hands.  

Self-protection is not the purpose of wearing a mask.  Your mask protects OTHERS from YOU.  

Mask wearer touches their phone then touches the credit card pin pad or door knob, then you touch the door or pin pad then touch your mask or phone.  Bam! You are now contaminated. 

The mask wearers have picked their nose, scratched their a$$, taken a leak without washing their hands then put on their mask.  

Wear your mask to protect yourself, sterilized your phone, keys, car frequently and wash your hands.  Don't make your poor hygiene practices someoene else's responsibility.   

Dream_Inn

LaRea said:

PickleRick said:

... Your mask won't save you when half the people handle them with dirty hands.  

Self-protection is not the purpose of wearing a mask.  Your mask protects OTHERS from YOU.  

I agree, but people should learn how to handle their own mask to protect themselves.  Since the admiral is an educator (RN as well) on two floors that were early on with COVID, I learned a lot from her on handling the mask and other crap.  Also, if you have a beard and wearing a N95, you might as well wear the cheapo mask cause that beard is keeping you from any protection.  Everyone in her hospital that had a beard shaved it off.

LaRea

CDC says:  “The purpose of masks is to keep respiratory droplets from reaching others to aid with source control."

PickleRick

The cdc also released flesh eating bacteria on the unsuspecting general public in the Atlanta Georgia area. I don't put much stock in the CDC

If you handle/wear your mask properly, wash or replace properly and sanitizer/sterilize/wash your hands/commonly touched personal items you will have no issues around those not wearing masks. Just as importantly, you're protected from those not wearing their mask properly or lack common sense when it comes to hygiene.

Your gear shifter, door handle, keys, writing utensils and phone are about the dirtiest things you encounter each day.

LaRea

And there's more new guidance:  

Masks that have exhaust valves are now viewed as bad because they don't stop as many droplets as cotton cloth masks.  Some airlines are starting to ban such masks.  

[EDIT:  This part is NOT from the CDC.  It has been widely reported, but it's only one study that has not been confirmed.]  Neck gaiters made of thin, stretchy material are bad because they break up larger airborne particles into a spray of little ones more likely to linger longer in the air.

J3ff

LaRea said:

And there's more new guidance:  

Masks that have exhaust valves are now viewed as bad because they don't stop as many droplets as cotton cloth masks.  Some airlines are starting to ban such masks.  

Neck gaiters made of thin, stretchy material are bad because they break up larger airborne particles into a spray of little ones more likely to linger longer in the air.

Well even i knew the neck Gators are worthless 🤣🤣

Willhound

So what you’re saying is, if you test positive for COVID 19, you had a few days of feeling bad, and then you were fine?  Sounds like most the times I’ve been sick when the whole world didn’t shut down and nobody lost their careers. 

No. The exact opposite. What I'm saying is that I can easily see how if people don't follow the guidelines and isolate when they are potentially sick they can easily spread it around. That's why things shut down. Ok, so if I am positive I'm very lucky in that I  wasn't extremely sick. But if I didn't go home and stay there, how many more people could I potentially make sick who can't fight it off. To think otherwise is , in my opinion, very self centred and uncivilized. Screw everybody else as long as me and my family are ok....no..its not.

LaRea

PickleRick said:

...  wash or replace properly and sanitizer/sterilize/wash your hands/commonly touched personal items ...

Hand-washing is important, but surface contact is not the primary vector.  

"COVID-19 spreads mainly from person to person through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs, sneezes, talks, or raises their voice (e.g., while shouting, chanting, or singing). These droplets can land in the mouths or noses of people who are nearby or possibly be inhaled into the lungs."

The cloth masks worn by the general public are actually not PPE at all.  It would be more accurate to call them "spit containment devices."  

Willhound

Hah! @LaRea that made me chuckle because when discussing the use of masks our fearless leader Prime Minister Trudeau (don't get me started on the scandal riddled putz) used the term "speaking moistly" 🤣
He is fluently bilingual and in French it would almost make sense...he was thinking in French but speaking in English...sort of. So the mask prevents you from "speaking moistly" on someone else.....

Handymans342

Does a thong stop droplets????

Willhound

Handymans342 said:

Does a thong stop droplets????

Only from the front.😂😂

PickleRick

LaRea said:

PickleRick said:

...  wash or replace properly and sanitizer/sterilize/wash your hands/commonly touched personal items ...

Hand-washing is important, but surface contact is not the primary vector.  

"COVID-19 spreads mainly from person to person through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs, sneezes, talks, or raises their voice (e.g., while shouting, chanting, or singing). These droplets can land in the mouths or noses of people who are nearby or possibly be inhaled into the lungs."

The cloth masks worn by the general public are actually not PPE at all.  It would be more accurate to call them "spit containment devices."  

So if you are wearing your proper mask why are you worried  non mask wearers are going to put spit in your mouth or nose?    

Id swap spit particles with Scarlett Johansson even if she were covid positive.

LaRea

I don't own a mask that will protect me from airborne particles. 

A properly fitted and correctly worn N95 respirator protects the wearer.  Those are reserved for people who need them:  health care workers, first responders, vulnerable people.  

So, even when I'm wearing my normal cloth mask, yes -- I worry about somebody not wearing a mask, and I'll keep my distance from them.  

PickleRick

Since most masks are worn/handled improperly or are not properly filtering air to begin with, don't you think it best to avoid all people and keep a safe social distance? Mask or no mask?

You said yourself, many masks simply break the spit into smaller particles.  

LaRea

Until I hear a good reason to the contrary, I'll follow the CDC guidelines.  

69fastback

Willhound said:

So what you’re saying is, if you test positive for COVID 19, you had a few days of feeling bad, and then you were fine?  Sounds like most the times I’ve been sick when the whole world didn’t shut down and nobody lost their careers. 

No. The exact opposite. What I'm saying is that I can easily see how if people don't follow the guidelines and isolate when they are potentially sick they can easily spread it around. That's why things shut down. Ok, so if I am positive I'm very lucky in that I  wasn't extremely sick. But if I didn't go home and stay there, how many more people could I potentially make sick who can't fight it off. To think otherwise is , in my opinion, very self centred and uncivilized. Screw everybody else as long as me and my family are ok....no..its not.

Actually, you aren’t lucky that you weren’t extremely sick. You fell under the extreme large majority. The norm. The unemployment number is exponentially  higher than the number of people who suffer complications from the virus. It seems self centered to me to say screw the 30,000,000 people and their families because the large majority of people that get a virus have symptoms like you’re describing. 

Handymans342

LaRea said:

Until I hear a good reason to the contrary, I'll follow the CDC guidelines.  

Do you think the POTUS should demand everyone wear a mask????